19:00:34 <kohsuke> #startmeeting
19:00:34 <robobutler> Let the Jenkins meeting commence!
19:00:56 <kohsuke> #topic Moving cucumber from Contegix to the OSUOSL data centers
19:01:07 <kohsuke> Scary
19:01:08 <softservant> matrix ... will do thanks.
19:01:15 <rtyler> heh
19:01:17 <softservant> awolf2: that's a plugin a take it?
19:01:30 <rtyler> softservant: mind holding off for a bit, we're starting up a project meeting
19:01:36 <rtyler> kohsuke: so all these agenda items are related
19:01:43 <kohsuke> Yeah
19:02:07 <rtyler> I wanted to bring this up, because I'd like to consolidate our non-mirror infrastructure into the OSUOSL
19:02:16 <rtyler> well, non-mirror and non-builder
19:02:44 <kohsuke> So in the sorted order, how do you see this happen in what steps?
19:03:00 <kohsuke> Do we move off services from cucumber before it moves?
19:03:10 <kohsuke> Or do we just take a hit for a few days (?) while the machine moves?
19:03:36 <kohsuke> Or when we say "move cucumber", are you thinking about moving its functionalities but not the physical machine itself?
19:04:24 <rtyler> both
19:04:32 <rtyler> I would move services off, and then move the server itself
19:04:48 <kohsuke> OK
19:05:16 <rtyler> the primary services are: www, mirrorbrain, jenkins master
19:05:28 <rtyler> there's a few other little things though
19:05:31 <kohsuke> right
19:05:48 <kohsuke> l10n submissions, log store
19:06:17 <rtyler> I'd be more than happy to run some things in AWS for the time of transit and migration
19:06:20 <rtyler> for the littler things
19:06:22 <rtyler> that's easy peasy
19:06:46 <hare_brain> Sorry, I've been a bit out of the loop. What's the context for this move?
19:06:47 <rtyler> so, with this agenda item, I had no timeline in mind, I just wanted to discuss it with you, hare_brain and abayer
19:06:48 <kohsuke> So let's think about big boys first
19:07:01 <rtyler> hare_brain: consolidation of infrastructure to the OSUOSL
19:07:13 <rtyler> and potentially decommissioning the physical machine cucumber
19:07:15 <hare_brain> I meant, what's the motivation?
19:07:52 <kohsuke> hare_brain: that's a good question --- status quo is the easiest
19:08:02 <rtyler> to consolidate things to the OSUOSL, cheaper, easier to manage
19:08:15 <rtyler> the status quo is crap
19:08:29 <rtyler> that machine runs pretty warm, and is already 3 years old or something like that
19:08:46 <rtyler> it can do things for a long time, but we ask quite a lot of it right now
19:08:50 <kohsuke> When I asked that to rtyler, whether the motivation is the cost or the principle, I think he said both
19:09:23 <kohsuke> The cost problem we should fix by having the project pay, if that hasn't happened already
19:09:48 <kohsuke> And I understood the "principle" part to be "let's make sure we are working toward the right direction"
19:09:54 <hare_brain> So crap could mean that you're not happy with the setup, but has it been causing problems for people? And by people, I mean committers and end users.
19:10:34 <kohsuke> hare_brain:  I do worry about a catastrophic loss of the server that will happen one day
19:10:45 <rtyler> it has not been causing problems for end-users or committers
19:11:03 <kohsuke> It's a hodge podge of services that I don't think we know how to fully recreate if it goes to the server heave
19:11:09 <kohsuke> n
19:11:11 * rtyler nods
19:11:17 <rtyler> that's exactly why I dislike it
19:11:17 <rtyler> :P
19:11:47 <hare_brain> OK, so this is clean up to allow for improved "business continuity" for lack of a better term.
19:12:11 <rtyler> heh
19:12:11 <kohsuke> That's my take of it
19:12:12 <rtyler> yes
19:12:48 <rtyler> so in terms of infra tasks
19:12:56 <hare_brain> So what's the cost now, and what do you expect the cost to be on OSUOSL? i.e., what makes the new thing cheaper?
19:13:00 <rtyler> we need to move confluence off eggplant to a new VM
19:13:09 <rtyler> hare_brain: we don't pay for any services at the OSUOSL
19:13:15 <rtyler> we just beg people to donate to them :P
19:13:18 <rtyler> they're so nice
19:13:23 <rtyler> #info the OSUOSL is nice
19:13:37 <rtyler> let me pull up my trello board
19:13:37 <kohsuke> And in terms of what we pay to Contegix, how much?
19:13:43 <rtyler> $60/month
19:14:04 <kohsuke> Right, so money-wise the project can keep it as long as we need.
19:14:04 <rtyler> #info Jenkins Infra trello board <https://trello.com/b/PhY2cx2y/jenkins-infrastructure>
19:14:08 <hare_brain> Is that coming out of your pocket? The project should reimburse you for that if it has been.
19:14:22 <rtyler> it has been, but I don't care enough about it to change it right now
19:14:42 <rtyler> anyways, what I'd like to do, is get the okay here to start migrating non-puppetized services off cucumber
19:15:05 <rtyler> with the long term goal of moving more services into "better long term" pieces of infra
19:15:23 <kohsuke> That's nice of you, but a part of it is also about preventing the server from disappear when your plane crashes & burns
19:15:33 <rtyler> heh
19:16:14 <kohsuke> So separate from the migration discussion, I think we want the server to be owned by the project, pay the cost, and etc.
19:16:46 * rtyler nods
19:16:49 <hare_brain> +1
19:17:28 <kohsuke> (And that reminds me of the domain name --- is that actually transferred to SPI, or is it still owned by you?)
19:17:57 <rtyler> I believe it's under my namecheap account
19:18:05 <kohsuke> (every time I get SSL it has to go through your approval, so there's that bus factor)
19:18:12 * rtyler nods
19:18:21 <rtyler> kohsuke: neither of us are good at preventing jenkins bus factor
19:18:28 <rtyler> you can never come flying with me
19:18:29 <kohsuke> #action kohsuke to ask SPI how to transfer domain ownership to SPI
19:18:31 <kohsuke> :-)
19:18:37 <rtyler> good item
19:18:58 <kohsuke> Now, on migration ...
19:19:00 <rtyler> #action kohsuke to ask SPI about best way to "own" hardware at Contegix datacenter
19:19:04 <kohsuke> Yeah
19:19:09 <kohsuke> I'm sure Debian is already doing it
19:19:30 <hare_brain> Probably just have a spreadsheet somewhere that lists project hardware.
19:19:51 <kohsuke> I need to find out how to set things up so that bills go SPI
19:19:57 * rtyler nods
19:20:17 <rtyler> hare_brain: do you have a trello username? I'll add you to this infra board
19:20:27 <hare_brain> I don't think I do.
19:20:33 <rtyler> ok, we can resolve that later then
19:20:41 <rtyler> #topic Migration of services off cucumber
19:20:55 <kohsuke> Or at least so that Contegix recognize SPI as the lawful owner (and maybe put me or somebody as the person who handles payment)
19:21:14 <rtyler> right
19:21:26 <kohsuke> Right, on migration, can we use docker? I'm a fan boy now
19:21:39 <rtyler> heh
19:21:47 <kohsuke> Makes adding new services & testing it easier
19:21:53 <rtyler> it says it so clearly guise
19:22:15 <rtyler> the how I'm less concerned with
19:22:21 <rtyler> and that doesn't need to be discussed here
19:22:26 <rtyler> I think the what and when is more prudent to discuss
19:22:30 <kohsuke> OK
19:23:03 <rtyler> in terms of things that aren't puppetized, I think i18n isn't, nor is robobutler
19:23:07 <rtyler> so I could start with those?
19:23:21 <kohsuke> Sure
19:24:25 <rtyler> alright
19:24:29 <kohsuke> To me, a big part of infra as code is to be mindful of where states are
19:24:43 <rtyler> #action rtyler to start puppetizing the i10n app to prep for migration
19:24:43 <kohsuke> Just puppetizing it doesn't capture that.
19:25:00 <rtyler> that's more the ops part of devops ;)
19:25:38 <rtyler> the puppetization being the first part solves for the "continuity " problem even if we don't move anything off cucumber
19:26:02 <rtyler> anyways, I'll start on that, we can discuss on the infra@ list the mechanics of moving things at a later point
19:26:06 <rtyler> can we talk confluence now?
19:26:38 <kohsuke> I'd feel great if we get to the point where state is backed up separately for each service, non-state for each service is Dockerized, and, we'd do a migration of a service from one box to another
19:26:46 <kohsuke> Yes, OK, confluence
19:26:56 <rtyler> #topic Migrating Confluence off Eggplant
19:27:09 <rtyler> so, I "found" the machine again that the OSUOSL gave us solely for confluence
19:27:15 <kohsuke> Yay
19:27:17 <rtyler> this is what happens when we don't write things down :P
19:27:22 <kohsuke> Can you add my key while you still remember it?
19:27:28 <hare_brain> Admit it, you never lost it. You were just using it to mine bitcoins.
19:27:28 <rtyler> yours was there already
19:27:30 <rtyler> but under the root user
19:27:36 <rtyler> which is the part I forgot
19:28:01 <kohsuke> nope
19:28:07 <kohsuke> ssh root@jenkins-confluence.osuosl.org refuses me
19:28:31 <rtyler> so I'd like to set up confluence on the machine based on our Puppet bits, and start pointing it the same DB
19:28:54 <rtyler> I'm not sure if that's a sensible idea, or wil confluence totally fuck our DB that way?
19:28:57 <kohsuke> Err, I don't think Confluence would be happy to have two instances pointing to the same DB
19:29:08 <rtyler> crap
19:29:15 <hare_brain> What's the DB?
19:29:21 <kohsuke> Let me verify
19:29:30 <rtyler> some hosted OSUOSL hosted postgres DB IIRC
19:29:39 <rtyler> that's the other nice thing about consolidation to the OSUOSL
19:29:43 <rtyler> is they'll run DB servers for us
19:29:44 <rtyler> \o/
19:30:01 <hare_brain> Can you set up a replicated slave?
19:30:13 <rtyler> we probably do have access to such a beast
19:30:16 <kohsuke> https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DOC/Cluster+Checklist#ClusterChecklist-DatabaseSetup
19:30:29 <kohsuke> So looks like I'm wrong
19:30:37 <rtyler> #action kohsuke and rtyler to work out plan to validate new Confluence instance in parallel with the existing one
19:30:38 <kohsuke> But we do need to store attachments in DB, which we don't
19:30:52 <rtyler> I'll add a task in Trello about attachments
19:31:23 <kohsuke> I still think it's easier to start by cloning a DB and then cut over later
19:31:33 <rtyler> #info We're planning on moving Confluence because the existing host runs Jira and Confluence and can't handle the load
19:31:39 <kohsuke> not sure if replicated slave would work because new confluence will want to write, too
19:31:46 <rtyler> kohsuke: okay, we'll do that
19:31:55 <rtyler> kohsuke: do you have an expert at Cloudbees that could work with me?
19:31:59 <rtyler> your time is too sporadic
19:32:02 <kohsuke> There's also the related static cache layer (and nginx) to go with it
19:32:26 <kohsuke> We are hiring! Lookins gor a great ops guy to work with us!
19:32:32 <kohsuke> Looking for...
19:32:39 <rtyler> heh
19:32:54 <rtyler> okay
19:33:00 <kohsuke> The flip side is that we don't really have a full-time ops guy at hand
19:33:03 <rtyler> #action rtyler to find some sucker that isn't kohsuke to help with the confluence migration
19:33:09 <kohsuke> But let me check with our acting ops guy
19:33:17 <rtyler> I think that covers my questions about confluence
19:33:25 <rtyler> last topic?
19:33:31 <hare_brain> (I was suggesting replicated to set up new confluence in read only mode first, and then when we're confident of the new setup, flip the switch to make it the new writable master, and turn off writes on the old one.)
19:33:44 <hare_brain> But if we just go with clustering, that is a better way to go
19:34:03 <kohsuke> might be a good opportunity to also finally bite the bullet and upgrade to Confluence 4
19:34:09 * rtyler nods
19:34:14 <rtyler> I'm sure the devs will LOVE 4
19:34:16 * rtyler gags
19:34:26 <kohsuke> The totally backward incompatible beast that still has the same name.
19:34:39 <kohsuke> #topic more stickers
19:34:48 <rtyler> this wasn't on the agenda!
19:34:52 <kohsuke> #chair rtyler hare_brain
19:34:52 <robobutler> Current chairs: hare_brain kohsuke rtyler
19:34:53 <hare_brain> Yes it was
19:35:02 <kohsuke> oh
19:35:05 <kohsuke> we skipped one
19:35:11 <kohsuke> #topic Switching from masterless Puppet to a Puppet master.
19:35:17 <rtyler> yisss
19:35:20 <hare_brain> Hahah
19:35:22 <rtyler> okay, this is more of an FYI
19:35:33 <rtyler> I've asked the OSUOSL for a new VM to run a puppetmaster
19:35:51 <rtyler> masterless puppet has served us well enough, but we're missing a LOT of inventory and status information from machines
19:36:01 <rtyler> like, did the puppet run actually work
19:36:33 <rtyler> I'm planning in the next couple months on moving more things under a puppetmaster, which would change our workflow from git commit + poll-based git pull deployments
19:36:51 <rtyler> to git commit -> testing in JonJ -> deployment of puppet to master -> machines updating
19:37:04 <kohsuke> OK
19:37:10 <rtyler> so we'll get more inventory and status info, but also have a better delivery and quality pipeline
19:37:13 <kohsuke> What would "test in JonJ" look like?
19:37:33 <rtyler> at the minimum, rspec-puppet, and catalog compilation
19:37:39 <rtyler> best case scenario, actual integration testing
19:37:43 <rtyler> TBD though
19:37:46 <kohsuke> OK
19:38:13 <rtyler> now we can talk stickers :)
19:38:16 <rtyler> hold on
19:38:27 <rtyler> #action rtyler to keep the board in the loop on the puppetmaster migration status
19:38:50 <rtyler> #action rtyler reaching out to Puppet Labs to see if they will help set up a beautiful/ideal "Open source using Puppet" infrastructure with us
19:38:58 <rtyler> #topic More stickers
19:39:04 <kohsuke> Right
19:39:15 <kohsuke> So between FOSDEM and SCALE I've run out of all the stickers
19:39:24 <kohsuke> except one or two packs that I still have at hand
19:39:29 <kohsuke> So it's time to reorder
19:39:42 <kohsuke> Let me pull up the price here...
19:40:03 <kohsuke> 2000 stickers for about $600
19:40:19 <kohsuke> Any objection in spending that money?
19:40:54 <kohsuke> I'm assuming it's OK
19:41:05 <hare_brain> +1
19:41:15 <rtyler> can we get more for cheaper per-piece?
19:41:25 <rtyler> how long did it take us to burn through the last 2k stickers?
19:41:26 <kohsuke> Just wanted to get some confirmation so that I won't be acting alone
19:41:40 <kohsuke> The last order was Feb 2013
19:41:51 <rtyler> so 2000 stickers a year?
19:41:55 <kohsuke> Yeah
19:42:02 <rtyler> seems reasonable, BUY IT NAO
19:42:20 <rtyler> try to get them to give you a special open source price or something thoguh
19:42:22 <hare_brain> Tempted to ask what the run rate was at each event, but I doubt you were keeping track. :)
19:42:39 <kohsuke> FOSDEM and SCALE are really the ones stickers fly away
19:42:44 <rtyler> hare_brain: FOSDEM we definitely burned about 500
19:42:54 <kohsuke> I think in all the past years we've spent all that we brought there
19:43:00 * rtyler nods
19:43:03 <kohsuke> So it's mainly constrained by how many we can bring
19:43:28 <kohsuke> Other local meet-ups and JUCs, # of attendees are small enough
19:43:45 <kohsuke> 2000 has 85% discount and 3000 has 87% discount
19:43:56 <kohsuke> So going beyond 2000 isn't really saving much.
19:44:12 * rtyler nods
19:44:23 <kohsuke> Actually, I should check with that guy who offered us free stickers
19:44:43 <kohsuke> He insisted that we talk this in e-mail and not in IRC, and sure enough I lost track of that conversation
19:44:48 <rtyler> when do we talk about cloudbees giving us some of their newfound venture monies? :)
19:45:08 <rtyler> high rollas
19:45:16 <kohsuke> rtyler: it's coming: https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=71435396
19:45:31 <rtyler> excellent
19:45:52 <rtyler> does that conclude the meeting?
19:46:11 <kohsuke> I'll get stickers ordered in parallel to follow up with the other sticker guy
19:46:20 <kohsuke> so that I have some supplies at hand
19:46:25 <kohsuke> And yes, I think that concludes it
19:46:28 <rtyler> #endmeeting