18:02:40 <kohsuke> #startmeeting
18:02:40 <robobutler> Let the Jenkins meeting commence!
18:02:55 <kohsuke> #chair abayer hare_brain  rtyler
18:02:55 <robobutler> Current chairs: abayer hare_brain kohsuke rtyler
18:03:23 <kohsuke> #topic Recap of last meeting's action items
18:03:40 <kohsuke> #info and that's captured in http://meetings.jenkins-ci.org/jenkins/2011/jenkins.2011-09-14-18.01.html
18:03:55 <kohsuke> "rtyler to prod kohsuke and the dev list to guage interest for a JavaOne Jenkins Hackathon"
18:04:09 <kohsuke> I wonder if we should still plan on it, or is it getting too late?
18:04:25 * kohsuke pokes rtyler
18:04:42 <kohsuke> I guess I'll defer his actions until later
18:05:16 <kohsuke> my donation related AIs are done
18:05:19 <abayer> Woot.
18:05:23 <kohsuke> So is hare_brain's CLA
18:05:38 <kohsuke> and I did publicize that we are shooting for blessing CLA and governance doc in 9/28
18:05:50 <kohsuke> ... by sending e-mail to the dev list.
18:05:56 <abayer> fwiw, I'm +1 on both, but hey.
18:06:07 <kohsuke> OK, so I think we are in good shape action-wise.
18:06:20 <kohsuke> #topic Donation status update (@orrc)
18:07:01 <kohsuke> #info I believe the current total amount is still at $3900
18:07:29 <kohsuke> and I also forgot to add the SPI overhead into the calculation, so we need to raise $5130 + 5% or something like that
18:08:02 <kohsuke> #idea I'd request folks presenting in JUC to mention donation in their slides
18:08:17 <hare_brain> Actually, according to their minutes, they stopped collecting the 5%
18:08:17 <abayer> That'd be a good idea, yeah.
18:08:22 <hare_brain> Let me find that reference.
18:08:32 <kohsuke> and maybe we can pass around the tip hat like people do in churches (or at least so I hear)
18:08:38 <kohsuke> :-)
18:09:10 <hare_brain> http://www.spi-inc.org/corporate/resolutions/2003/2003-04-01.wta.2/
18:09:39 <kohsuke> ah
18:10:51 <kohsuke> There's also a conversation about recurring payment?
18:10:52 <mwalling> kohsuke: "offering plate"
18:11:09 <hare_brain> When presenters open up their session for questions, people with questions must first donate before they get their questions answered. ;)
18:11:31 <kohsuke> :-)
18:12:09 <mwalling> hare_brain: http://www.spi-inc.org/meetings/minutes/2011/2011-08-10/ the treasurer's report still lists 5%
18:12:26 <kohsuke> I guess orrc wants us to find out the SPI relationship with FFIS?
18:12:29 <hare_brain> Yeah I noticed that.
18:12:59 <kohsuke> I think I heard about that 5% in the SPI IRC channel, too
18:13:41 <hare_brain> Something to follow up with SPI about then.
18:14:31 <kohsuke> #action Kohsuke to follow up with SPI to make sure 5% withholding still applies, and finds out the resolution of re-introduction post 2003/4/1
18:15:06 * rtyler wakes up
18:15:45 <kohsuke> #info another idea in the thread orrc mentioned is to have some "seal" for showing off the fact that someone donated
18:15:55 <kohsuke> I suppose we can do that
18:16:09 <hare_brain> Where would the seal show up?
18:16:17 <kohsuke> maybe the footer?
18:16:22 <hare_brain> How would you handle seals for company donations?
18:16:35 <hare_brain> Who's footer?
18:17:08 <kohsuke> I guess we'll send them a special plugin?
18:17:40 <kohsuke> in the name of the person who donated, or something
18:17:47 <hare_brain> Hahaha. So they can be impressed with themselves for donating?
18:18:03 <hare_brain> I guess I thought a seal would be more like the "I voted" stickers. To tell *other* people that you donated.
18:18:07 <kohsuke> Yeah, it's like "I voted" seal
18:18:28 <kohsuke> I guess to other users using your instance
18:18:45 <kohsuke> Or maybe we should list their names publicly?
18:18:51 <rtyler> if they want
18:19:17 <hare_brain> A public list makes more sense. Sort of like the donation/sponsor placards at churches/hospitals.
18:19:25 <kohsuke> Right
18:19:32 <hare_brain> But +1 to rtyler's observation. Only if they want to be publicly listed.
18:19:48 <kohsuke> OK, so we'll ask them if they want thir names to be listed, and have a Wiki page that lists them
18:20:14 <kohsuke> Fortunately or unfortunately, the # of donations are small that it is quite feasible
18:20:53 <kohsuke> #agreed we'll ask those who donated if they want their names to be listed, and have a Wiki page that lists them
18:21:02 <hare_brain> Put it on the donation page itself.
18:21:03 <hare_brain> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Donation
18:21:17 <kohsuke> #agreed we'll ask those who donated if they want their names to be listed, and have the donation page that lists them
18:21:36 <kohsuke> Shall we move on to the next topic?
18:21:47 <kinow_> Hi there, don't know if others can give their opinion here in the meeting, first time that I'm here in the channel during the meeting... but maybe something like what Eclipse does? When you donate you can say if you want your name to be displayed or not, and if so, there is a donor list (http://www.eclipse.org/donate/donorlist.php), they also have the Friends of Eclipse logo + special mirror with more bandwidth
18:22:09 <rtyler> I don't think we can run a special mirror :P
18:22:46 <rtyler> the Friends of Eclipse logo is also something that the OSL does
18:22:48 <orrc> yeah, so if we can automatically accept donations via FFIS, that would be great for us Europe types
18:22:50 <kohsuke> kinow_: everyone is welcome. And thanks, this is helpful
18:23:08 <kohsuke> orrc: I got an action to find out their relationship
18:23:27 <orrc> kohsuke: ah, I missed that
18:23:47 <kohsuke> "Friend of Jenkins" logo is something we can do, too
18:24:47 <kohsuke> interesting. "Friend of Eclipse" is for $35. I guess that's how they suggest the amount
18:24:50 <kohsuke> anyway
18:24:51 <kinow_> The special mirror is not really necessary, Jenkins war is much smalled than  Eclipse archives. But I would like to be a "Friend of Jenkins" :)
18:26:04 <kohsuke> I'll see if I or someone else can hack that up quickly, maybe during JUC
18:26:16 <kohsuke> I don't think it needs to be sophisticated and well protected.
18:26:33 <rtyler> hack what up?
18:26:45 <kohsuke> "Friend of Jenkins" seal plugin that we send to those who donated
18:26:48 <rtyler> ah
18:27:08 <rtyler> i thought you meant a special mirror, I was about to pull out my slappin' trout
18:27:29 <kohsuke> No, I learnt my lesson, sir
18:27:36 <kohsuke> Any more on this topic before we move on?
18:27:50 <kohsuke> #topic Choosing next LTS baseline candidate (Yahoo! folk?)
18:28:20 <kohsuke> hare_brain: any progress on 1.424 since then?
18:29:14 <kohsuke> Maybe we lost him?
18:29:25 <hare_brain> Yeah, so we fixed the problems we had with the HTML escaping feature, so our internal fork is now passing all built in tests and our additional tests.
18:29:54 <kohsuke> so we are good to go?
18:30:17 <hare_brain> But unfortunately, we've had to prioritize some internal work so we haven't had more chance to do further testing in larger setups yet.
18:30:49 <hare_brain> But I think in general, 1.424 is a good baseline to start the next LTS version on.
18:31:15 <hare_brain> With vjuranek's test matrix, that'll cover things we haven't covered.
18:31:33 <kohsuke> As long as it's unlikely that you'll restart from scratch on another version as the baseline, it sounds like we can start on 1.424.
18:31:51 <hare_brain> I don't think we will.
18:32:08 <kohsuke> Any +1/-1, anyone else?
18:32:23 <kohsuke> Otherwise I think we can record 1.424 as the agreement
18:32:48 <kohsuke> (hoping to get a few more +1s for formality)
18:32:56 <orrc> sounds good :)
18:32:57 <vjuranek> user rating alos looks good for 1.424  so +1 for 1.424
18:32:59 * rtyler has no points either way for LTS
18:33:08 <imod> +1
18:33:27 <kohsuke> #agreed Next LTS baseline would be 1.424
18:33:48 <kohsuke> #topic Governance Document review/approval
18:33:59 <vjuranek> one more point wrt LTS
18:34:08 <kohsuke> ga
18:34:25 <vjuranek> it would be nice to have specified number of days for backporting
18:34:28 * kohsuke wonders if there's a command to have robobutler go back to the previous topic
18:34:49 <kohsuke> window of accepting changes, I suppose.
18:35:02 <vjuranek> yup, https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/LTS+Outlines+Proposal
18:35:04 <kohsuke> At Sun we use to call it the code freeze day
18:35:12 <vjuranek> Jenkins release for ?? days
18:35:21 <vjuranek> replace ?? with something
18:36:26 <kohsuke> 2 weeks?
18:36:40 <vjuranek> is 14 days OK, or it would be better to specify it in terms of releases...e.g. it has to be contained at least in two public releases?
18:36:47 <hare_brain> According to the table, I think it was 1 public release.
18:37:13 <hare_brain> 1.422 released JENKINS-10000 on 7/25
18:37:15 <jenkins-admin> JENKINS-10000:Configuration methods for classes with no test methods are not displayed (Resolved) http://jenkins-ci.org/issue/10000
18:37:30 <hare_brain> This was backported and released in LTS on 8/8
18:37:39 <hare_brain> Thank you, jenkins-admin.
18:38:06 <hare_brain> I'm totally fine with changing it. I was just pointing out that that information was encoded in the table
18:38:28 <kohsuke> I'm fine either way
18:38:42 <vjuranek> I would prefere 14 days
18:39:01 <kohsuke> Let's start with 14 days and adjust if needed, then
18:39:05 <hare_brain> OK, so two public releases.
18:39:45 <hare_brain> The LTS minor release that coincides with the 3rd public release after a blocker bug was fixed in the public release line will contain the backported fix.
18:40:19 <kohsuke> Just updated the wiki page and put 14 in there
18:40:42 <kohsuke> OK, can we move on now?
18:40:43 <hare_brain> The table needs to be updated to shift the releases in the LTS column down a row
18:40:51 <hare_brain> I'll do that while we keep the meeting moving.
18:41:03 <vjuranek> thanks
18:41:10 <kohsuke> #topic Governance Document review/approval
18:41:27 <kohsuke> I've made some edits since the last meeting
18:42:03 <kohsuke> We've added CLA portion, trademark portion, expanded on the 3rd party license section, and moved some stuff around based on comments I received
18:43:03 <abayer> It's been said before, it'll be said again, but goddamn, kohsuke, you've done a simply amazing job with that doc.
18:43:34 <kohsuke> Anyone wants to discuss some parts of it further, or can we just do a vote?
18:43:40 <imod> can only agree!!!
18:43:45 <kohsuke> Thank you!
18:44:13 <kohsuke> I should point out that some of the logistical aspects aren't fully taken care of, but I think that's OK. Those are just technicality.
18:44:25 <kohsuke> (like how to keep track of who signed CLA, etc.)
18:44:42 <hare_brain> I was going to point out the TODO on the list of core committers, but that falls into the technicality category as well.
18:45:14 <hare_brain> Since we're only accepting electronic CLA submissions, just check them into the infra-cla repo
18:45:24 <kohsuke> Let me remove that TODO now
18:45:25 <abayer> …smart man, dean. =)
18:45:38 <abayer> I was writing up a more elaborate version of exactly what Dean just suggested. =)
18:46:10 <kohsuke> So people send in their CLA via pull requests? Nice.
18:46:32 <abayer> Or email, etc.
18:46:32 <orrc> with their personal address, email and phone number stored in git history forever?
18:46:49 <hare_brain> Eh. Good point.
18:46:50 <hare_brain> Details.
18:46:57 <abayer> Bah. Stupid privacy!
18:47:04 * rtyler slaps abayer with a trout
18:47:05 <hare_brain> Well
18:47:17 <orrc> ok, file that one back under technicalities
18:47:25 <abayer> I'll take an action item to figure out the technicalities there.
18:47:41 <hare_brain> orrc: Is your concern that the information is stored in GitHub, or just access to that repo?
18:47:53 <rtyler> I share the same concern, and doesn't matter
18:48:02 <kohsuke> abayer: and please make the signee list machine readable, too
18:48:12 <orrc> hare_brain: ah, mainly the public part of it
18:48:39 <kohsuke> rtyler: but we do need the PDFs maintained somewhere
18:48:48 <abayer> #action abayer to figure out how to store submitted CLAs in a way that doesn't violate privacy, and to have a machine readable list generated from those CLAs.
18:48:50 <hare_brain> So if the repo was restricted access?
18:49:03 <rtyler> hare_brain: that could work, but not the pull requests part :)
18:49:06 <kohsuke> I guess the google groups do the archiving
18:49:07 <hare_brain> Right
18:49:08 <abayer> I believe that's how ASF handles it.
18:49:13 <abayer> (private repo, etc)
18:49:23 <kohsuke> And our GitHub account doesn't do private repo
18:49:31 <abayer> I'm fairly sure we can get our hands on one. =)
18:49:41 <abayer> (would poke ksawicki if he were here now)
18:50:04 <kohsuke> I think we should let abayer figure this out, as he took the action
18:50:08 <hare_brain> ok
18:50:09 <kohsuke> I think the concern is well understood
18:50:15 <abayer> It'd have to be under a different account than jenkinsci, if I remember correctly, but yeah. I'll work it out.
18:50:18 <hare_brain> orrc, thanks for bringing it up
18:50:20 <hare_brain> That was important
18:50:30 <abayer> I'll bang that out while I'm sitting around at JavaOne. =)
18:50:54 <kohsuke> OK, does this mean we can vote now?
18:51:05 <abayer> +1
18:51:16 <imod> +1
18:51:22 <vjuranek> +1
18:51:27 <hare_brain> Are those votes, or votes to vote? ;)
18:51:43 <abayer> Vote to vote. =)
18:51:43 <vjuranek> vote:-)
18:51:53 <vjuranek> ok, vote to vote:-)
18:52:01 <kohsuke> Let me try again. Here's the motion to approve the governance document as of revision 21
18:52:06 <orrc> what happens once it's approved? it can't be edited? I think the doc is brilliant, but I've had it open for a while, meaning to go through it and fix up spelling, grammar etc :)
18:52:30 <hare_brain> I think if there are edits, we'll need to vote on the edits
18:53:03 <hare_brain> Or, have a pointer to the official blessed revision, and let the page itself float with edits.
18:53:16 <abayer> Yeah. So it may make sense to do a "feature freeze" on the doc now, and then take a week or two to do bug fixes - i.e., grammer/etc.
18:53:25 <orrc> I like it
18:53:31 <hare_brain> Agreed.
18:53:42 <hare_brain> CI on a project governance document. Nice.
18:53:49 <kohsuke> except I won't be able to announce it in JUC :-(
18:53:59 <hare_brain> I think you can.
18:54:06 <hare_brain> I think we're saying it's good enough for 1.0
18:54:09 <orrc> 1.0 RC1 :)
18:54:16 <hare_brain> But we should expect 1.1, 1.2 in the future.
18:54:24 <kohsuke> Agreed about 1.1 and 1.2
18:54:26 <rtyler> and thus began kohsuke's long decent into becoming a salesperson
18:54:29 <hare_brain> Or 1.0.1 for grammar and spelling corrections
18:54:47 <abayer> Yeah, 1.0.1.
18:55:02 <kohsuke> Is that OK, orrc?
18:55:09 <orrc> absolutely
18:55:18 <kohsuke> 1.0 today, and 1.0.1 with minor bug fixes
18:55:21 <kohsuke> OK
18:55:27 <abayer> Let's vote on this as 1.0, and then orrc can make a copy of the page, clean it up, etc, and then we can vote on that as 1.0.1 in two weeks.
18:55:40 <kohsuke> Sounds good
18:55:44 <hare_brain> Agreed
18:55:52 <kohsuke> Now I say let the voting commence!
18:56:10 <hare_brain> +1 on rev 21 as 1.0
18:56:10 <kohsuke> And here's my +1 to approve the document
18:56:12 <imod> once again: +1
18:56:15 <vjuranek> +1
18:56:20 <abayer> +1
18:56:45 <rtyler> +fish
18:57:02 <kohsuke> what's that supposed to mean?
18:57:20 <hare_brain> It means he wants to get slapped with a trout
18:57:28 <abayer> I think rtyler's just being….difficult. =)
18:57:37 <rtyler> yap
18:57:56 <kohsuke> #agreed rev21 is approved as governance document 1.0
18:58:08 <kohsuke> actually, I need to make it rev22 to remove "this is work in progress" header
18:58:48 <abayer> =)
18:58:51 <kohsuke> done
18:59:11 <kohsuke> #topic next meeting time
18:59:38 <kohsuke> Two weeks from now I'm in Tokyo
18:59:45 <kohsuke> 3am is not going to work.
18:59:49 <kohsuke> for me.
18:59:54 <mwalling> aww, why not? ;)
19:00:09 <kohsuke> so either you guys carry on without me, we'll change time, or we'll skip
19:00:56 <kohsuke> If we do it 3 hours earlier, is that too hard for US west coast folks?
19:01:00 <kohsuke> That's 8am?
19:01:37 <hare_brain> For me, that's difficult. In the middle of getting everyone out the door.
19:02:01 <hare_brain> What is 9pm PDT in other time zones?
19:02:17 <hare_brain> (There's no time change between now and then, is there?)
19:02:26 <abayer> Actually, there may be.
19:02:36 <abayer> In any case, that's 6am Euro time.
19:02:40 <abayer> 5am UK.
19:02:54 <hare_brain> Alright, maybe a little too early.
19:03:46 <kohsuke> I guess we'll leave it at the regular time, and we'll let others decide to cancel or have the meeting as scheduled?
19:04:21 <kohsuke> OK. Let's do that.
19:04:21 <hare_brain> That's what it sounds like.
19:04:30 <hare_brain> (BTW, no time change until November 6.)
19:05:04 <kohsuke> OK, I think we are done for the day.
19:05:13 <kohsuke> Thank you very much!
19:05:28 <hare_brain> Hope to see many of you at JUC
19:05:35 <kohsuke> me too
19:05:46 <kohsuke> #endmeeting