18:00:38 <danielbeck> #startmeeting
18:00:38 <robobutler> Let the Jenkins meeting commence!
18:00:45 <danielbeck> #chair kohsuke rtyler
18:00:45 <robobutler> Current chairs: danielbeck kohsuke rtyler
18:00:50 <rtyler> alright danielbeck get us started :0
18:00:57 <rtyler> \o/
18:01:01 <danielbeck> https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Governance+Meeting+Agenda
18:01:01 <bitwiseman> hello
18:01:04 <tracymiranda> hi
18:01:06 <danielbeck> hi everyone!
18:01:07 <alyssat_> hola
18:01:11 <oleg-nenashev> hi
18:01:13 <danielbeck> #topic Recap last meeting's actions
18:01:18 <oleg-nenashev> No LTS status check today?
18:01:36 <danielbeck> #info http://meetings.jenkins-ci.org/jenkins-meeting/2018/jenkins-meeting.2018-07-18-18.00.html
18:01:42 <danielbeck> probably just missing, we'll do that second
18:01:49 <ogondza> yeah
18:02:00 <danielbeck> ogondza did you add Jenkinsfiles?
18:02:04 <oleg-nenashev> GSoC action item is done
18:02:06 <ogondza> yep, thanks again
18:02:23 <danielbeck> great
18:02:34 <danielbeck> #topic LTS status check
18:02:43 <danielbeck> ogondza I saw you did the backports today
18:02:56 <ogondza> yeah, ATH still running
18:03:18 <ogondza> presumably it will not blow up overnight, I will be pushing RC tomorrow afternoon UTC
18:03:34 <danielbeck> ok
18:03:56 <danielbeck> #info https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/issues/?jql=labels%20%3D%202.121.3-fixed
18:04:22 <ogondza> that would be it for me
18:04:28 <danielbeck> #topic Travel grant request to DevOps World - Jenkins World SF
18:04:35 <danielbeck> is Mandy around?
18:04:57 <alyssat_> she mentioned she would join
18:05:10 <krysjonaz> 
18:05:13 <krysjonaz> 
18:05:17 <krysjonaz> 
18:05:18 <oleg-nenashev> oh man
18:05:20 <krysjonaz> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
18:05:22 <alyssat_> she said she's having trouble joining
18:05:56 * tracymiranda cheers for danielbeck's swift reaction
18:06:03 <danielbeck> #info https://groups.google.com/d/msg/jenkinsci-dev/hG0zmAIiTN0/Fp9TPK2TCwAJ
18:06:34 <oleg-nenashev> It seems that responders are fine with 500 USD grant
18:06:52 <danielbeck> right, we still have the old grant program that wasn't really used
18:06:57 <tracymiranda> seems like we should split in 2 parts: 1 for travel grant, 1 for anything beyond that
18:07:04 <danielbeck> #info https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Travel+Grant+Program
18:07:18 <danielbeck> tracymiranda that seems reasonable
18:07:21 <oleg-nenashev> Do 500USD make difference there?
18:07:51 <oleg-nenashev> But yeah, fine with splitting
18:07:57 <danielbeck> I don't think she's said anything about whether a partial grant would help her
18:08:00 <bitwiseman> a percentage of total is better than nothing.
18:08:27 <bitwiseman> We can make the offer and see what she says.
18:08:33 <oleg-nenashev> yup
18:08:44 <danielbeck> rtyler how are the project funds looking? SPI isn't really keeping up with the treasurer reports it seems
18:08:59 <rtyler> well, there's the 2017 report :P
18:09:00 <alyssat_> I can get approval from CloudBees to help with some as well. +1 w/ Liam on partial is better than nothing
18:09:09 <rtyler> but yeah, we've got around 30k last I checked
18:09:52 <danielbeck> ok
18:10:02 <oleg-nenashev> so, let's vote?
18:10:08 <danielbeck> shall we go ahead and vote for the basic program? I expect that will be fairly straightforward?
18:10:23 <oleg-nenashev> +1
18:10:32 <bitwiseman> +1
18:10:35 <tracymiranda> +1
18:10:39 <alyssat_> +1
18:10:41 <rtyler> I'm +1 on allocating funds thorugh our existing grant program
18:10:56 <danielbeck> thanks rtyler for making clear you're not voting to vote ;-)
18:10:57 <bitwiseman> alyssat_ can see about more from cloudbees if Mandy asks.
18:11:07 <danielbeck> I'm +1 as well
18:11:19 <alyssat_> yes bitwiseman
18:11:23 <oleg-nenashev> Also +1 from Mark
18:11:33 <danielbeck> +1 from KK
18:11:34 <oleg-nenashev> ... in the mailing list
18:11:52 <oleg-nenashev> Any  concerns?
18:12:00 <danielbeck> Correction, KK seems in favor but not explicit +1
18:12:38 <alyssat_> no concerns from me
18:12:39 <danielbeck> #agreed Mandy Hubbart to get 500 USD travel grant as per the 2015 program
18:13:01 <danielbeck> now the question is, whether to go higher
18:13:22 <tracymiranda> and how much higher
18:13:27 <danielbeck> TBH I long thought treating any destination the same was a bit weird
18:13:38 <alyssat_> I think we should consider the current market value and the location of the conf
18:14:07 <danielbeck> as in, come to JW SF for 4 days and get the same as we might grant for a 2 day conf elsewhere
18:14:12 <rtyler> I don't think this is the productive venue to discuss this
18:14:27 <rtyler> if somebody wants to put forth a propose to enlarge the travel grant program, or change it, then I welcome an actual proposal
18:14:37 <oleg-nenashev> I second rtyler's feedback
18:15:00 <alyssat_> sounds good
18:15:07 <danielbeck> just go to the vote then? What would we be voting on? Full 2k? Half? Or skip the vote?
18:15:10 <bitwiseman> Possibly in a JEP.
18:15:18 <oleg-nenashev> for sure as JEP :)
18:15:24 <tracymiranda> i would advocate for an additional $500  as a merit/diversity grant
18:15:44 <bitwiseman> tracymiranda: that sounds good to me.
18:15:49 <alyssat_> +1
18:15:54 <oleg-nenashev> no policy for that so far
18:16:08 <tracymiranda> guess I have another agenda item for today then :-)
18:16:11 <rtyler> I'm -1 on shooting from the hip here without an actual prroposal sent to the dev list
18:16:22 <oleg-nenashev> I agree it is important, but there should be justification for that
18:16:45 <tracymiranda> agree it should be done in a way others know they can apply for similar
18:16:47 <danielbeck> do we know how urgent this is?
18:17:17 <danielbeck> can we still decide on it in 2 weeks or is that too late to book etc.?
18:17:17 <oleg-nenashev> Our policy says we will reply not later than 4 weeks before the event
18:17:26 <alyssat_> Mandy needs to know asap so she can book her trip
18:17:45 <danielbeck> would have been great to know about this more than 1 day before the meeting :-/
18:18:57 <oleg-nenashev> so, do we want to vote?
18:19:02 <danielbeck> given the time constraints, I propose a vote on an additional 500 USD. If there's consensus support for that, we're done, otherwise we can come back to this in the next meeting after further discussion. WDYT?
18:19:09 <oleg-nenashev> Or do we take the discussion to the ML?
18:19:41 <alyssat_> +1 danielbeck
18:20:02 <rtyler> -1, I don't believe this is a fair way to appropriate Jenkins project funds
18:20:08 <oleg-nenashev> -1
18:20:12 <tracymiranda> what are requirements for a vote to pass?
18:20:22 <tracymiranda> majority...super majority...
18:20:28 <tracymiranda> unanimous...
18:20:53 <tracymiranda> +1
18:20:55 <oleg-nenashev> Just avoid the new board election algorithms :) KISS to make it working
18:21:06 <danielbeck> ±0
18:21:11 <rtyler> https://jenkins.io/project/governance/#meeting simply discusses "consensus"
18:21:59 <oleg-nenashev> To clarify: My -1 is mostly about lack of the process definition or even a draft proposal
18:22:17 <rtyler> I appreciate the perceived time pressure here, but this is not how we have spent project funds in the past, and would like to get consensus on the dev list first and foremost
18:22:29 <bitwiseman> okay, it sounds like there is not consensus.
18:23:00 <danielbeck> yes. If alyssat_'s vote is for the decision then we're at 50%, so should go back to the list for further discussion.
18:23:12 <tracymiranda> anyone else would like to vote?
18:23:13 <danielbeck> and well, if it's not, we're majority against
18:23:48 <danielbeck> doesn't look like it
18:23:55 <bitwiseman> How about we offer $500 and tell her that we are discussing additional?
18:24:04 <bitwiseman> Well I said +1, but
18:24:13 <bitwiseman> I'm all for consensus.
18:25:39 <alyssat_> I'm fine with bitwiseman's suggestion
18:25:47 <danielbeck> historically we've aimed at overwhelming majority and right now we're at less than 2/3
18:25:59 <danielbeck> so I propose we circle back to the dev list for an actual proposal
18:26:26 <rtyler> that's reasonable IMO
18:26:48 <bitwiseman> Then Mandy can decide if $500 is enough - be clear that we additional funds should not be counted on.
18:26:51 <tracymiranda> i would jump at the chance to be more inclusive right now imho
18:27:43 <danielbeck> TBF, this was a very last minute proposal, so I'm not surprised we're not agreeing to rewrite project policy the same day
18:27:45 <rtyler> I'm strongly aginst spending project funds without a proper proposal circulated to the dev list
18:27:47 <bitwiseman> tracymiranda: I completely agree, and we can communicate that we are trying to do so, but there it will take time.
18:28:05 <bitwiseman> rtyler: agreed, dev-list first.
18:28:44 <bitwiseman> rtyler: with communication to Mandy in parallel.
18:28:54 <rtyler> aye
18:30:17 <alyssat_> Mandy joined...Hi DevMandy
18:30:20 <danielbeck> tracymiranda IIUC you want to establish a general diversity grant program -- is that something you can prepare in the next week or so?
18:30:46 <tracymiranda> yep - what format - dev list email or JEP
18:30:58 <NightMonkey21> 
18:30:58 <NightMonkey21> 
18:30:58 <NightMonkey21> 
18:31:02 <NightMonkey21> 
18:31:09 <oleg-nenashev> JEP draft would be nice
18:31:13 <bitwiseman> JEP includes dev-list
18:31:45 <rtyler> I'm fine either way to be honest, just something written down accessible to all potential applicants
18:31:53 <rtyler> our existing grant is program is just some stuff on the wiki
18:32:14 <tracymiranda> what is a good amount % to invest in diversity and inclusion efforts?
18:32:23 <tracymiranda> per year
18:32:42 <DevMandy> Hi everyone.  I understand you don't quite have a protocol for this.  I am here to answer any questions about my request.
18:33:39 <oleg-nenashev> define "diversity" please
18:33:41 <tracymiranda> hi DevMandy!
18:33:45 <rtyler> tracymiranda: 20-40 IMHO, assuming that kohsuke's going to go do more fundraising for us :)
18:33:58 <danielbeck> DevMandy o/  we were able to agree on a 500 USD grant based on the existing program, but we'll need to do another round of discussion for more than that
18:34:25 <oleg-nenashev> This is a wide thing which may be dangerous if applied incorrectly. Though I fully support having a program
18:34:32 <danielbeck> rtyler 20-40% of the 0 USD income we have? :S
18:34:34 <tracymiranda> inherent diversity traits such as gender, ethnicity, age, sexual orientation
18:34:59 <oleg-nenashev> or disability, at least
18:35:02 <rtyler> danielbeck: off the current (let's call it annual) budget
18:35:29 <oleg-nenashev> Do we still have the Patron program tho?
18:35:37 <danielbeck> no donations this year I think
18:36:07 <alyssat_> danielbeck is correct. no donation so far this yr
18:36:11 <danielbeck> basically since I've proposed stopping it it wasn't used at all
18:36:31 <oleg-nenashev> yep
18:36:47 <oleg-nenashev> It is not helpful until we have advertisement on jenkins.io
18:37:06 <alyssat_> I would have to do more outreach to prospects
18:37:23 <oleg-nenashev> JSF would solve it, no?
18:37:52 <tracymiranda> that's the hope & plan
18:38:03 <oleg-nenashev> yup
18:39:19 <oleg-nenashev> So, does anybody have questions to DevMandy  while she is around?
18:40:02 <alyssat_> I don't have any
18:40:07 <rtyler> not from me
18:40:18 <danielbeck> no
18:40:28 <bitwiseman> It seems like there's no questions that we want to support, it's a matter of how and how much.
18:40:41 <danielbeck> tracymiranda so you'll propose a revision of the travel grant program?
18:40:55 <tracymiranda> should we limit to travel grant?
18:41:07 <tracymiranda> I was looking at python general grant program...
18:41:16 <tracymiranda> but maybe scope is too wide
18:41:29 <rtyler> it'sll be faster to limit to travel right now
18:41:43 <tracymiranda> ok
18:41:44 <rtyler> much easier to get agreement quickly on, which is importnat here IMO
18:42:01 <DevMandy> i won't be able to attend without the full amount :(
18:42:23 <DevMandy> my company still hadn't gotten back to me when i accepted. i asked for more time, but that wasn't an option
18:42:28 <danielbeck> DevMandy to clarify, anything less than 2000 won't help?
18:42:41 <DevMandy> i would have to pay for it out of my own pocket
18:43:20 <oleg-nenashev> TBF, it happens often in open-source communities
18:43:36 <DevMandy> yeah, well i can't do that
18:43:56 <oleg-nenashev> so, let's see if we can find a way
18:44:06 <alyssat_> as mentioned earlier I can work with DevMandy on the CloudBees grant if it helps
18:44:56 <tracymiranda> yes sounds like a good pincer move - we update grant proposal on Jenkins end and see if we can get policy for more and all push CloudBees to do more here
18:45:09 <oleg-nenashev> Also, there are dozens of other sponsors listed
18:45:11 <tracymiranda> *also (
18:45:13 <danielbeck> #action tracymiranda to prepare updated grant proposal
18:46:02 <danielbeck> #agreed we won't commit to a larger travel grant today
18:47:01 <raSter^8> 
18:47:01 <raSter^8> 
18:47:01 <raSter^8>
18:47:04 <raSter^8>
18:47:15 <danielbeck> anything further about this topic right now, before we have a proposal from tracymiranda ?
18:47:32 <tracymiranda> nope
18:47:34 <oleg-nenashev> Just make sure that diversity does not apply to such spammers
18:47:42 * rtyler rolls eyes
18:48:03 <danielbeck> could probably set +m and give everyone +v :-/
18:48:14 <tracymiranda> make sure spammers don't find a way to vote ;)
18:48:19 <danielbeck> #topic GSoC status update
18:48:25 <danielbeck> oleg-nenashev only saw this now, sorry for the skip
18:48:31 <oleg-nenashev> Oh
18:48:38 <oleg-nenashev> Who did add that? :)
18:48:41 <danielbeck> hah
18:48:43 <danielbeck> rtyler I think
18:48:46 <oleg-nenashev> Anyway, so far so good
18:48:53 <rtyler> :D
18:49:01 <oleg-nenashev> @info Coding period ends on Aug 6
18:49:09 <oleg-nenashev> whatever
18:49:33 <oleg-nenashev> #info We will have final presentation on the week of Aug 10, TBA
18:49:43 <rtyler> cool, will that be done through the Youtube channel?
18:49:49 <oleg-nenashev> yes
18:49:52 <danielbeck> oleg-nenashev all projects are successful? Or not determined yet?
18:49:55 <oleg-nenashev> as JOM, likely
18:50:03 <rtyler> cool
18:50:06 <oleg-nenashev> danielbeck: Cannot comment on that, mentors will decide
18:50:15 <danielbeck> ok
18:50:16 <rtyler> danielbeck: I don't think that will be determined until their penciles have been put down after the 6th :p
18:50:37 <danielbeck> it's like you're surprised I know nothing :P
18:50:38 <oleg-nenashev> There are some issues, as always
18:50:54 <oleg-nenashev> But we are working on them
18:51:20 <oleg-nenashev> #info GSoC SIG will be introduced this weekend
18:51:43 <oleg-nenashev> just to have it, we already have all channels in place
18:52:02 <rtyler> \o/
18:52:19 <oleg-nenashev> So, I am ready to answer any questions :)
18:52:21 <bitwiseman> GSoC doesn't meet year-round.
18:52:29 <oleg-nenashev> It should
18:52:35 <bitwiseman> Okay, cool.
18:52:37 <oleg-nenashev> GSoC never ends actually
18:52:45 <bitwiseman> Forever summer.
18:52:53 <oleg-nenashev> For org admins . yes
18:53:08 <oleg-nenashev> We need to organize things and to find mentor teams
18:53:15 <oleg-nenashev> Usually it starts in autumn
18:53:28 <danielbeck> interesting, I was wondering why the sig, but this makes sense
18:53:46 <rtyler> how northern hemisphere centric you are danielbeck  :P
18:53:52 <oleg-nenashev> Well, the difference between SIGs and projects is something we could discuss
18:54:02 <SWAT23> 
18:54:05 <SWAT23>
18:54:19 <oleg-nenashev> If a project has regular meetings & leads, it's almost a SIG
18:54:51 <oleg-nenashev> But whatever
18:54:54 <danielbeck> oleg-nenashev any further updates?
18:54:59 <oleg-nenashev> Nope
18:55:07 <danielbeck> thanks!
18:55:12 <oleg-nenashev> We just should produce more community buzz
18:55:13 <danielbeck> #topic next meeting
18:55:14 <oleg-nenashev> everywhere
18:55:38 <danielbeck> that would be August 15
18:56:18 <danielbeck> which, by the way, is the date for the next LTS baseline selection as well
18:56:24 <danielbeck> so anyone interested in that should show up
18:56:51 <danielbeck> #endmeeting