18:00:38 <danielbeck> #startmeeting 18:00:38 <robobutler> Let the Jenkins meeting commence! 18:00:45 <danielbeck> #chair kohsuke rtyler 18:00:45 <robobutler> Current chairs: danielbeck kohsuke rtyler 18:00:50 <rtyler> alright danielbeck get us started :0 18:00:57 <rtyler> \o/ 18:01:01 <danielbeck> https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Governance+Meeting+Agenda 18:01:01 <bitwiseman> hello 18:01:04 <tracymiranda> hi 18:01:06 <danielbeck> hi everyone! 18:01:07 <alyssat_> hola 18:01:11 <oleg-nenashev> hi 18:01:13 <danielbeck> #topic Recap last meeting's actions 18:01:18 <oleg-nenashev> No LTS status check today? 18:01:36 <danielbeck> #info http://meetings.jenkins-ci.org/jenkins-meeting/2018/jenkins-meeting.2018-07-18-18.00.html 18:01:42 <danielbeck> probably just missing, we'll do that second 18:01:49 <ogondza> yeah 18:02:00 <danielbeck> ogondza did you add Jenkinsfiles? 18:02:04 <oleg-nenashev> GSoC action item is done 18:02:06 <ogondza> yep, thanks again 18:02:23 <danielbeck> great 18:02:34 <danielbeck> #topic LTS status check 18:02:43 <danielbeck> ogondza I saw you did the backports today 18:02:56 <ogondza> yeah, ATH still running 18:03:18 <ogondza> presumably it will not blow up overnight, I will be pushing RC tomorrow afternoon UTC 18:03:34 <danielbeck> ok 18:03:56 <danielbeck> #info https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/issues/?jql=labels%20%3D%202.121.3-fixed 18:04:22 <ogondza> that would be it for me 18:04:28 <danielbeck> #topic Travel grant request to DevOps World - Jenkins World SF 18:04:35 <danielbeck> is Mandy around? 18:04:57 <alyssat_> she mentioned she would join 18:05:10 <krysjonaz> 18:05:13 <krysjonaz> 18:05:17 <krysjonaz> 18:05:18 <oleg-nenashev> oh man 18:05:20 <krysjonaz> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/ 18:05:22 <alyssat_> she said she's having trouble joining 18:05:56 * tracymiranda cheers for danielbeck's swift reaction 18:06:03 <danielbeck> #info https://groups.google.com/d/msg/jenkinsci-dev/hG0zmAIiTN0/Fp9TPK2TCwAJ 18:06:34 <oleg-nenashev> It seems that responders are fine with 500 USD grant 18:06:52 <danielbeck> right, we still have the old grant program that wasn't really used 18:06:57 <tracymiranda> seems like we should split in 2 parts: 1 for travel grant, 1 for anything beyond that 18:07:04 <danielbeck> #info https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Travel+Grant+Program 18:07:18 <danielbeck> tracymiranda that seems reasonable 18:07:21 <oleg-nenashev> Do 500USD make difference there? 18:07:51 <oleg-nenashev> But yeah, fine with splitting 18:07:57 <danielbeck> I don't think she's said anything about whether a partial grant would help her 18:08:00 <bitwiseman> a percentage of total is better than nothing. 18:08:27 <bitwiseman> We can make the offer and see what she says. 18:08:33 <oleg-nenashev> yup 18:08:44 <danielbeck> rtyler how are the project funds looking? SPI isn't really keeping up with the treasurer reports it seems 18:08:59 <rtyler> well, there's the 2017 report :P 18:09:00 <alyssat_> I can get approval from CloudBees to help with some as well. +1 w/ Liam on partial is better than nothing 18:09:09 <rtyler> but yeah, we've got around 30k last I checked 18:09:52 <danielbeck> ok 18:10:02 <oleg-nenashev> so, let's vote? 18:10:08 <danielbeck> shall we go ahead and vote for the basic program? I expect that will be fairly straightforward? 18:10:23 <oleg-nenashev> +1 18:10:32 <bitwiseman> +1 18:10:35 <tracymiranda> +1 18:10:39 <alyssat_> +1 18:10:41 <rtyler> I'm +1 on allocating funds thorugh our existing grant program 18:10:56 <danielbeck> thanks rtyler for making clear you're not voting to vote ;-) 18:10:57 <bitwiseman> alyssat_ can see about more from cloudbees if Mandy asks. 18:11:07 <danielbeck> I'm +1 as well 18:11:19 <alyssat_> yes bitwiseman 18:11:23 <oleg-nenashev> Also +1 from Mark 18:11:33 <danielbeck> +1 from KK 18:11:34 <oleg-nenashev> ... in the mailing list 18:11:52 <oleg-nenashev> Any concerns? 18:12:00 <danielbeck> Correction, KK seems in favor but not explicit +1 18:12:38 <alyssat_> no concerns from me 18:12:39 <danielbeck> #agreed Mandy Hubbart to get 500 USD travel grant as per the 2015 program 18:13:01 <danielbeck> now the question is, whether to go higher 18:13:22 <tracymiranda> and how much higher 18:13:27 <danielbeck> TBH I long thought treating any destination the same was a bit weird 18:13:38 <alyssat_> I think we should consider the current market value and the location of the conf 18:14:07 <danielbeck> as in, come to JW SF for 4 days and get the same as we might grant for a 2 day conf elsewhere 18:14:12 <rtyler> I don't think this is the productive venue to discuss this 18:14:27 <rtyler> if somebody wants to put forth a propose to enlarge the travel grant program, or change it, then I welcome an actual proposal 18:14:37 <oleg-nenashev> I second rtyler's feedback 18:15:00 <alyssat_> sounds good 18:15:07 <danielbeck> just go to the vote then? What would we be voting on? Full 2k? Half? Or skip the vote? 18:15:10 <bitwiseman> Possibly in a JEP. 18:15:18 <oleg-nenashev> for sure as JEP :) 18:15:24 <tracymiranda> i would advocate for an additional $500 as a merit/diversity grant 18:15:44 <bitwiseman> tracymiranda: that sounds good to me. 18:15:49 <alyssat_> +1 18:15:54 <oleg-nenashev> no policy for that so far 18:16:08 <tracymiranda> guess I have another agenda item for today then :-) 18:16:11 <rtyler> I'm -1 on shooting from the hip here without an actual prroposal sent to the dev list 18:16:22 <oleg-nenashev> I agree it is important, but there should be justification for that 18:16:45 <tracymiranda> agree it should be done in a way others know they can apply for similar 18:16:47 <danielbeck> do we know how urgent this is? 18:17:17 <danielbeck> can we still decide on it in 2 weeks or is that too late to book etc.? 18:17:17 <oleg-nenashev> Our policy says we will reply not later than 4 weeks before the event 18:17:26 <alyssat_> Mandy needs to know asap so she can book her trip 18:17:45 <danielbeck> would have been great to know about this more than 1 day before the meeting :-/ 18:18:57 <oleg-nenashev> so, do we want to vote? 18:19:02 <danielbeck> given the time constraints, I propose a vote on an additional 500 USD. If there's consensus support for that, we're done, otherwise we can come back to this in the next meeting after further discussion. WDYT? 18:19:09 <oleg-nenashev> Or do we take the discussion to the ML? 18:19:41 <alyssat_> +1 danielbeck 18:20:02 <rtyler> -1, I don't believe this is a fair way to appropriate Jenkins project funds 18:20:08 <oleg-nenashev> -1 18:20:12 <tracymiranda> what are requirements for a vote to pass? 18:20:22 <tracymiranda> majority...super majority... 18:20:28 <tracymiranda> unanimous... 18:20:53 <tracymiranda> +1 18:20:55 <oleg-nenashev> Just avoid the new board election algorithms :) KISS to make it working 18:21:06 <danielbeck> ±0 18:21:11 <rtyler> https://jenkins.io/project/governance/#meeting simply discusses "consensus" 18:21:59 <oleg-nenashev> To clarify: My -1 is mostly about lack of the process definition or even a draft proposal 18:22:17 <rtyler> I appreciate the perceived time pressure here, but this is not how we have spent project funds in the past, and would like to get consensus on the dev list first and foremost 18:22:29 <bitwiseman> okay, it sounds like there is not consensus. 18:23:00 <danielbeck> yes. If alyssat_'s vote is for the decision then we're at 50%, so should go back to the list for further discussion. 18:23:12 <tracymiranda> anyone else would like to vote? 18:23:13 <danielbeck> and well, if it's not, we're majority against 18:23:48 <danielbeck> doesn't look like it 18:23:55 <bitwiseman> How about we offer $500 and tell her that we are discussing additional? 18:24:04 <bitwiseman> Well I said +1, but 18:24:13 <bitwiseman> I'm all for consensus. 18:25:39 <alyssat_> I'm fine with bitwiseman's suggestion 18:25:47 <danielbeck> historically we've aimed at overwhelming majority and right now we're at less than 2/3 18:25:59 <danielbeck> so I propose we circle back to the dev list for an actual proposal 18:26:26 <rtyler> that's reasonable IMO 18:26:48 <bitwiseman> Then Mandy can decide if $500 is enough - be clear that we additional funds should not be counted on. 18:26:51 <tracymiranda> i would jump at the chance to be more inclusive right now imho 18:27:43 <danielbeck> TBF, this was a very last minute proposal, so I'm not surprised we're not agreeing to rewrite project policy the same day 18:27:45 <rtyler> I'm strongly aginst spending project funds without a proper proposal circulated to the dev list 18:27:47 <bitwiseman> tracymiranda: I completely agree, and we can communicate that we are trying to do so, but there it will take time. 18:28:05 <bitwiseman> rtyler: agreed, dev-list first. 18:28:44 <bitwiseman> rtyler: with communication to Mandy in parallel. 18:28:54 <rtyler> aye 18:30:17 <alyssat_> Mandy joined...Hi DevMandy 18:30:20 <danielbeck> tracymiranda IIUC you want to establish a general diversity grant program -- is that something you can prepare in the next week or so? 18:30:46 <tracymiranda> yep - what format - dev list email or JEP 18:30:58 <NightMonkey21> 18:30:58 <NightMonkey21> 18:30:58 <NightMonkey21> 18:31:02 <NightMonkey21> 18:31:09 <oleg-nenashev> JEP draft would be nice 18:31:13 <bitwiseman> JEP includes dev-list 18:31:45 <rtyler> I'm fine either way to be honest, just something written down accessible to all potential applicants 18:31:53 <rtyler> our existing grant is program is just some stuff on the wiki 18:32:14 <tracymiranda> what is a good amount % to invest in diversity and inclusion efforts? 18:32:23 <tracymiranda> per year 18:32:42 <DevMandy> Hi everyone. I understand you don't quite have a protocol for this. I am here to answer any questions about my request. 18:33:39 <oleg-nenashev> define "diversity" please 18:33:41 <tracymiranda> hi DevMandy! 18:33:45 <rtyler> tracymiranda: 20-40 IMHO, assuming that kohsuke's going to go do more fundraising for us :) 18:33:58 <danielbeck> DevMandy o/ we were able to agree on a 500 USD grant based on the existing program, but we'll need to do another round of discussion for more than that 18:34:25 <oleg-nenashev> This is a wide thing which may be dangerous if applied incorrectly. Though I fully support having a program 18:34:32 <danielbeck> rtyler 20-40% of the 0 USD income we have? :S 18:34:34 <tracymiranda> inherent diversity traits such as gender, ethnicity, age, sexual orientation 18:34:59 <oleg-nenashev> or disability, at least 18:35:02 <rtyler> danielbeck: off the current (let's call it annual) budget 18:35:29 <oleg-nenashev> Do we still have the Patron program tho? 18:35:37 <danielbeck> no donations this year I think 18:36:07 <alyssat_> danielbeck is correct. no donation so far this yr 18:36:11 <danielbeck> basically since I've proposed stopping it it wasn't used at all 18:36:31 <oleg-nenashev> yep 18:36:47 <oleg-nenashev> It is not helpful until we have advertisement on jenkins.io 18:37:06 <alyssat_> I would have to do more outreach to prospects 18:37:23 <oleg-nenashev> JSF would solve it, no? 18:37:52 <tracymiranda> that's the hope & plan 18:38:03 <oleg-nenashev> yup 18:39:19 <oleg-nenashev> So, does anybody have questions to DevMandy while she is around? 18:40:02 <alyssat_> I don't have any 18:40:07 <rtyler> not from me 18:40:18 <danielbeck> no 18:40:28 <bitwiseman> It seems like there's no questions that we want to support, it's a matter of how and how much. 18:40:41 <danielbeck> tracymiranda so you'll propose a revision of the travel grant program? 18:40:55 <tracymiranda> should we limit to travel grant? 18:41:07 <tracymiranda> I was looking at python general grant program... 18:41:16 <tracymiranda> but maybe scope is too wide 18:41:29 <rtyler> it'sll be faster to limit to travel right now 18:41:43 <tracymiranda> ok 18:41:44 <rtyler> much easier to get agreement quickly on, which is importnat here IMO 18:42:01 <DevMandy> i won't be able to attend without the full amount :( 18:42:23 <DevMandy> my company still hadn't gotten back to me when i accepted. i asked for more time, but that wasn't an option 18:42:28 <danielbeck> DevMandy to clarify, anything less than 2000 won't help? 18:42:41 <DevMandy> i would have to pay for it out of my own pocket 18:43:20 <oleg-nenashev> TBF, it happens often in open-source communities 18:43:36 <DevMandy> yeah, well i can't do that 18:43:56 <oleg-nenashev> so, let's see if we can find a way 18:44:06 <alyssat_> as mentioned earlier I can work with DevMandy on the CloudBees grant if it helps 18:44:56 <tracymiranda> yes sounds like a good pincer move - we update grant proposal on Jenkins end and see if we can get policy for more and all push CloudBees to do more here 18:45:09 <oleg-nenashev> Also, there are dozens of other sponsors listed 18:45:11 <tracymiranda> *also ( 18:45:13 <danielbeck> #action tracymiranda to prepare updated grant proposal 18:46:02 <danielbeck> #agreed we won't commit to a larger travel grant today 18:47:01 <raSter^8> 18:47:01 <raSter^8> 18:47:01 <raSter^8> 18:47:04 <raSter^8> 18:47:15 <danielbeck> anything further about this topic right now, before we have a proposal from tracymiranda ? 18:47:32 <tracymiranda> nope 18:47:34 <oleg-nenashev> Just make sure that diversity does not apply to such spammers 18:47:42 * rtyler rolls eyes 18:48:03 <danielbeck> could probably set +m and give everyone +v :-/ 18:48:14 <tracymiranda> make sure spammers don't find a way to vote ;) 18:48:19 <danielbeck> #topic GSoC status update 18:48:25 <danielbeck> oleg-nenashev only saw this now, sorry for the skip 18:48:31 <oleg-nenashev> Oh 18:48:38 <oleg-nenashev> Who did add that? :) 18:48:41 <danielbeck> hah 18:48:43 <danielbeck> rtyler I think 18:48:46 <oleg-nenashev> Anyway, so far so good 18:48:53 <rtyler> :D 18:49:01 <oleg-nenashev> @info Coding period ends on Aug 6 18:49:09 <oleg-nenashev> whatever 18:49:33 <oleg-nenashev> #info We will have final presentation on the week of Aug 10, TBA 18:49:43 <rtyler> cool, will that be done through the Youtube channel? 18:49:49 <oleg-nenashev> yes 18:49:52 <danielbeck> oleg-nenashev all projects are successful? Or not determined yet? 18:49:55 <oleg-nenashev> as JOM, likely 18:50:03 <rtyler> cool 18:50:06 <oleg-nenashev> danielbeck: Cannot comment on that, mentors will decide 18:50:15 <danielbeck> ok 18:50:16 <rtyler> danielbeck: I don't think that will be determined until their penciles have been put down after the 6th :p 18:50:37 <danielbeck> it's like you're surprised I know nothing :P 18:50:38 <oleg-nenashev> There are some issues, as always 18:50:54 <oleg-nenashev> But we are working on them 18:51:20 <oleg-nenashev> #info GSoC SIG will be introduced this weekend 18:51:43 <oleg-nenashev> just to have it, we already have all channels in place 18:52:02 <rtyler> \o/ 18:52:19 <oleg-nenashev> So, I am ready to answer any questions :) 18:52:21 <bitwiseman> GSoC doesn't meet year-round. 18:52:29 <oleg-nenashev> It should 18:52:35 <bitwiseman> Okay, cool. 18:52:37 <oleg-nenashev> GSoC never ends actually 18:52:45 <bitwiseman> Forever summer. 18:52:53 <oleg-nenashev> For org admins . yes 18:53:08 <oleg-nenashev> We need to organize things and to find mentor teams 18:53:15 <oleg-nenashev> Usually it starts in autumn 18:53:28 <danielbeck> interesting, I was wondering why the sig, but this makes sense 18:53:46 <rtyler> how northern hemisphere centric you are danielbeck :P 18:53:52 <oleg-nenashev> Well, the difference between SIGs and projects is something we could discuss 18:54:02 <SWAT23> 18:54:05 <SWAT23> 18:54:19 <oleg-nenashev> If a project has regular meetings & leads, it's almost a SIG 18:54:51 <oleg-nenashev> But whatever 18:54:54 <danielbeck> oleg-nenashev any further updates? 18:54:59 <oleg-nenashev> Nope 18:55:07 <danielbeck> thanks! 18:55:12 <oleg-nenashev> We just should produce more community buzz 18:55:13 <danielbeck> #topic next meeting 18:55:14 <oleg-nenashev> everywhere 18:55:38 <danielbeck> that would be August 15 18:56:18 <danielbeck> which, by the way, is the date for the next LTS baseline selection as well 18:56:24 <danielbeck> so anyone interested in that should show up 18:56:51 <danielbeck> #endmeeting