18:01:28 #startmeeting 18:01:28 Let the Jenkins meeting commence! 18:01:30 wheee 18:01:33 #topic Last meeting items 18:01:45 now, we didn't exactly have a last meeting because there wasn't much to do 18:02:01 so let's blaze through this 18:02:15 #topic LTS status check 18:02:39 I don't see ogondza around, perhaps you have an idea of what's going on here jglick / oleg-nenashev? 18:02:47 nope 18:02:54 checking 18:03:02 * rtyler hasn't been following LTS lately 18:03:23 #info https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/Nnkr_2Kfz7E 18:03:31 Hello everyone :-) 18:03:40 Katrin from JFrog saying Hi 18:03:40 hi 18:03:58 ogondza is here now 18:04:06 ogondza: right on cue :) 18:04:34 sorry, Istill m ytopic is still on 18:04:41 ogondza: indeed 18:04:46 the testing looks good 18:04:55 no complains reported as well 18:05:16 which release would this be again? 18:05:19 I would say we are good for 2.89.3 18:05:22 aha 18:05:31 when do we discuss the next baseline? 18:05:32 I was running the RC for a while before JEP-200, looks good 18:05:42 rtyler: in 4 weeks IIUC 18:05:47 Is this LTS release for JEP-200? 18:05:52 markewaite: have you had any opportunities to bang on the RC? 18:06:01 samrocketman: negative 18:06:15 samrocketman: JEP-200 LTS ETA is March 14 18:06:15 Ok good, bc I still need to test it with my plugins. 18:06:29 Thanks oleg-nenashev rtyler 18:06:32 yeah, I was going to ping you about ghprb ;) 18:06:45 I comaintain ghprb 18:07:04 shall we move on to the next topic then? 18:07:09 Seems so 18:07:12 +1 18:07:12 I'll loop them in out of band. 18:07:13 #info agenda is here btw https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Governance+Meeting+Agenda#GovernanceMeetingAgenda-January17thmeeting 18:07:24 #topic JEP-200 status update / Q&A 18:07:28 Okay 18:07:45 #info we landed JEP-200 in 2.102 18:07:59 #info It caused regressions, as expected: https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/Plugins+affected+by+fix+for+JEP-200 18:08:03 #agreed kohsuke will push 2.89.3 18:08:26 ogondza: sorry, I should have waited before moving on 18:08:34 So far everything is contained more or less, kudos to jglick, Slide-O-Mix, rsandell and many other folks 18:08:41 #info https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/200 18:09:16 But it's still a kind of crash-landing, so I am happy to answer questions and to note feedback if any 18:09:32 Otherwise I would like to discuss out-of-order release 18:09:51 rtyler: sorry I missed the earlier question on LTS RC. My testing of the RC was all good. Switched to RC shortly after it was announced, ran until Friday when I installed JEP-200 pre-release 18:10:05 #info JEP-200 ETA in LTS is March 14 according to the current plans (if it gets accepted to LTS) 18:10:30 oleg-nenashev: will you also please #info a one-line explaination of what JEP-200 is 18:11:20 #info JEP-200 is switching of XStream/Remoting class filters from blacklist to whitelist 18:12:11 #info So, if a class is not in a plugin/core/module, it will be rejected if not whitelisted. Common examples: Java internal classes, 3rd-party libraries (Guava & Co) 18:12:34 since there don't seem to be any questions thus far, what do you mean by out-of-order release? 18:13:17 https://github.com/jenkinsci/jenkins/blob/master/core/src/main/resources/jenkins/security/whitelisted-classes.txt got updated since 2.102. It could close some regressions in plugins not reported yet 18:14:03 This core whitelist was also our last resort for cases when we were unable to update plugins quickly before 2.102 18:14:14 oleg-nenashev: I've not seen a large outcry asking for an out-of-order release. Have you seen many requests to include the updated whitelist in a new release? 18:14:35 I don't understand what "out-of-order" even means in the context of weekly releases 18:14:47 means "not on sunday" :) 18:14:59 why is that worth the tiem and effort at all? 18:15:14 "It could close some regressions in plugins not reported yet" 18:15:47 E.g. "java.util.Collections$UnmodifiableMap" was not whitelisted so any plugin serializing it will fail with 2.102 🤷 18:15:49 some unknown list of possible issues, a few days ahead of a regularly scheduled weekly release? 18:16:34 Since nobody asks for out-of-order && jglick is silent,, I feel there is no strict need to do it so far 18:16:50 if this were potentially affecting an LTS, I would be more agreeable on the subject, but to me this seems like unnecessary release churn 18:17:23 oleg-nenashev: you could perhaps ask kohsuke to release a little early since he might be on an international flight sunday :P 18:17:29 Okay, so no weekly then. Once thing we definitely need is a release of GHPRB by samrocketman. It's getting hot 18:17:30 I have a JEP-200 question but I can wait until after the meet to ask. 18:17:52 "getting hot" heh 18:18:09 #agreed We are NOT going to spin out-of-order weekly release for JEP-200 18:18:25 samrocketman: might as well ask, if it's requiring more discussion later we can punt to #jenkins post-meeting 18:18:31 Well, it's probably the worst community rating in the core ever 18:18:49 Or not 18:19:04 we've had weekly releases before that failed to even boot 18:19:09 * rtyler chuckles 18:19:22 but let's not have a "worst ever" competition :) 18:19:32 We have several open issues, the most hot ones are GHPRB and Artifactory from what I see 18:19:40 Ok, so while I maintain plugins (e.g. merge PRs and release to repo.jenkins-ci.org); I'm not entirely comfortable _developing_. I can do little patches here and there. However, I'm not sure what needs to be done for fixing plugins for JEP-200. Example: https://github.com/jenkinsci/ghprb-plugin/issues/618 18:19:53 We also wait for several reviews/releases by maintainers 18:20:01 Question: How do I go about surfacing this or asking for help from other people for a fix? 18:20:15 I've noted in a comment things I've seen discussed ere. 18:20:17 oleg-nenashev: I thought there were some developer guidelines around JEP-200 somewhere 18:20:20 s/ere/here/ 18:20:44 #info Developer guidelines: https://jenkins.io/blog/2018/01/13/jep-200/#for-plugin-developers 18:20:59 great, thanks 18:21:11 samrocketman: further questions about that, let's punt to #jenkins after the meeting 18:21:18 Okay, sounds good. 18:21:20 any other questions/concerns about JEP-200 before we move on? 18:21:44 #info JEP-200 includes a "warranty period". A team is investigating all reported issues and trying to fix them if possible. So far the "team" is oleg-nenashev and jglick 18:21:57 samrocketman: E.g. https://jenkins.io/blog/2018/01/13/jep-200/#for-plugin-developers for ghprb 18:22:03 crap 18:22:10 https://github.com/jenkinsci/ghprb-plugin/pull/616 18:22:25 I've noted that link in the GHPRB GitHub issue links for later review by my comaintainer and I. 18:22:39 #action oleg-nenashev to send a post-mortem doc once the dust settles 18:23:01 I notice jglick has proposed a PR so I'll prioritize its review. 18:23:01 I think it's important for developers and especially weekly users 18:23:31 Nothing else from me 18:23:42 you're not off the hook just yet :) 18:23:44 #topic GSoC 2018: Discussion - Do we want to kick-it off 18:23:50 Okay 18:24:32 So this year we consider participating in GSoC 18:24:58 #info GSoC is the Google Summer of Code program 18:25:08 It's undetermined what "we" means in the sentence above, and that's why I added it to the agenda 18:25:17 #info Call formentors: https://jenkins.io/blog/2018/01/06/gsoc2018-call-for-mentors/ 18:26:00 I have started pinging people in mid December about GSoC Mentorship and project ideas 18:26:28 The interest from active contributors and plugin maintainers is limited at best, but we got some proposals 18:26:40 #info: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q2p_XZEdbkcVDMpEPTtjPS15i2Oq3CQgH_geJjPhofY/edit#heading=h.iu2aqxlb7caw 18:26:56 oleg-nenashev: do you have any co-organizers signed up to help run the program, if we are an accepted project? 18:27:20 oleg-nenashev: I commented in that PR I'll prioritize review and release ASAP. Thanks! 18:27:55 rtyler: I am sure I will find few co-organizers if we get accepted. It's not a problem at the current stage since we have the most of documents ready (from the prev years) 18:28:19 The problem is that in the current state we will unlikely get accepted 18:28:23 oleg-nenashev: I will not have bandwidth to participate in any form this year, so I don't want anybody to have the expectation that I can help back stuff up 18:28:40 I know 18:28:47 And no complains at all 18:28:49 heh 18:29:06 based on the work you've done thus far, I don't see a *downside* to applying 18:29:31 #info Application deadline: January 23 18:29:47 So we won't be able to reiterate it at FOSDEM like in 2016/17 18:30:17 Just in case, does ANYBODY else consider participating as mentor? :) 18:30:59 Applying this year should not hit us much if we fail again 18:31:11 Sorry, just remembered the meeting was in progress. Nothing more to add from my side. I do not see a pressing need for an out-of-order release; all problems are fixable by (planned or actual) plugin updates. 18:31:25 ty jglick 18:31:34 GSoC 5... 18:31:39 4 18:31:41 3 18:31:47 2 18:31:48 I'm willing to consider being a mentor, if the mentoring could be limited to two plugins 18:31:56 It could 18:32:05 Add me to the list 18:32:13 Mentors generally propose their project ideas 18:32:32 will do. Hadn't proposed idea yet. Will put that in tomorrow. 18:32:34 markewaite: So you can just drop your project idea in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q2p_XZEdbkcVDMpEPTtjPS15i2Oq3CQgH_geJjPhofY/edit 18:32:38 thanks! 18:32:55 At least I do not feel alone now :D 18:33:08 oleg-nenashev: anything else to discuss regarding GSoC at this point? 18:33:14 I think "no" 18:33:28 #agreed oleg-nenashev to prepare the docs and to apply to GSoC 2018 18:33:44 #topic Request for mark usage, "JUC Paris" by JFrog 18:33:50 KatrinJFrog: hi 18:33:58 Hello everyone :-) 18:34:02 this agenda item actually surprised me when I saw it 18:34:03 hi Katrin 18:34:07 welcome 18:34:07 there's been a JUC Paris before I though 18:34:22 yes, but last year it was called JCD 18:34:27 Yes, but it was before the Trademark Approval process 18:34:30 ah 18:34:41 JUC Paris in the past did not go Trademark approval process 18:34:42 we're much more responsible these days :P 18:34:47 In order to have consistency and brand/community recognition, I would like to ask for the right to use the name Jenkins User Conference for both events please. 18:34:54 we try to be ;) 18:34:58 #info our trademark guidelines can be found here: https://jenkins.io/project/governance/#trademark 18:35:20 KatrinJFrog: I don't know what you mean by "both" events, the agenda item refers to a Jenkins User Conference Paris 18:35:21 I see no problem with JUC Paris 18:35:43 I would have comments about JCD taking my prev year experience, but JUC is fine 18:35:45 We are running JUC Israel as well 18:35:58 JUC Paris should be June 28th and JUC Israel July 3rd 18:36:05 KatrinJFrog: are you requesting sublicense for both events in this meeting? 18:36:14 Kohsuke confirmed his attendance for both events already 18:36:26 and it would be great to have the same naming this year 18:36:48 KatrinJFrog: the Jenkins project is a bit larger than just kohsuke these days ;) 18:36:57 KatrinJFrog: can you explain what the events are about a little bit 18:37:01 well, the JUC Israel event is already running for 7 years 18:37:04 * oleg-nenashev would be happy to see a "How we fixed JEP-200 in Artifactory Plugin" talk this year 18:37:29 let's organise that! ;-) 18:37:50 heh 18:38:49 alyssat_: CloudBees has no interest in handling JUC Paris anymore, right? If yes, there is no conflict between past events and this approval request 18:38:54 the event is bring the community together, we focus on non-commercial talks 18:39:25 oleg-nenashev: there's no issue from CloudBees on this front 18:39:33 then +1 18:39:37 so, what was agreed on is that JFrog is allowed t organise together with Cloudbees as sponsor the communuty events 18:40:07 +1 from me as well 18:40:10 we always include your marketing in the decisions of course 18:40:16 I am +1 on a sublicense for Jenkins User Conference Paris and Jenkins User Conference Israel for JFrog, Inc. 18:40:33 woot woot! 18:40:35 fantastic! 18:40:40 thank you guys!! 18:40:44 KatrinJFrog: we're not there yet 18:40:53 that will make the communication and promo much easier 18:40:54 any other concerns/questions? 18:40:59 oh sorry 18:41:08 no concerns from me 18:41:15 too enthusiastic ;-) 18:41:30 we started the planning about the event, i am getting in the mood 18:42:24 I suppose trademark sublicenses are so perfunctory at this point that everybody but oleg-nenashev and I, tunes out 18:42:37 LOL! 18:43:12 #agreed Trademark sublicense granted to JFrog, Inc. for "Jenkins User Conference Paris" and "Jenkins User Conference Israel" 18:43:21 #action rtyler to update the approved trademark usage wiki page 18:43:36 awesome :-) thank you everyone! 18:43:46 KatrinJFrog: this requires that JFrog, Inc. follow our trademark usage and attribution guidelines: https://jenkins.io/project/governance/#trademark 18:43:52 that's not optional 18:43:52 thanks Katrin for joining us 18:44:03 yes, noted, np of course 18:44:14 KatrinJFrog: you are responsible for ensuring that your marketing team and others within JFrog are using the trademark correctly 18:44:15 i will involve Alyssa and the team in all 18:44:17 i'll work w/ Katrin on trademark usage, as usual 18:44:21 okay great 18:44:33 #action alyssat_ to help JFrog understand our trademark guidelines :) 18:44:33 sure! 18:44:57 KatrinJFrog: please also contact aheritier who is one of our contributors, who also organizes DevoxxFr: https://twitter.com/aheritier/status/953676315802198016 18:45:18 he may have some great talks from speakers who were not able to fit into the DevoxxFr schedule 18:45:31 oh, yes, good idea, thanks 18:45:31 shall we move on? 18:45:35 we know Arnaud well 18:45:39 thanks all for having me and thanks for the license 18:45:48 have a good remaining dayévening! 18:45:51 bye 18:45:55 KatrinJFrog: If there are restrictions by language and employer this year, I kindly ask to mention it in CFP this time 18:45:56 by 18:45:57 bye 18:45:58 #topic FOSDEM planning update 18:46:03 you're up alyssat_ 18:46:06 #info https://wiki.jenkins.io/display/JENKINS/FOSDEM+2018 18:46:18 Planning is in high gear as we are about 2 wks away from the actual event. 18:46:33 We are still finalizing the agenda for Monday (5 Feb). I will be updating the meetup page this wk or next wk as we nail down the agenda. 18:47:00 If you haven't RSVP'd and are planning to attend FOSDEM and Jenkins events pls RSVP so we can get as accurate head count as possible for planning purposes. 18:47:28 alyssat_: can you go over the specific events we have planned on the meetup page? 18:47:43 yup. 18:48:22 so on Friday we've reserved a meeting room at BeCentral for contributors to come hang out, work together. no agenda really 18:48:55 then in the evening is the beer gathering (just like previous yrs) 18:49:20 FOSDEM is on Sat and Sun. 18:49:52 on Monday we are planning a hackfest..all day..the agenda for that is forth coming. 18:50:09 Saturday I'm running the Testing and Automation devroom \o/ 18:50:15 because I'm an idiot 18:50:19 but you all knew that 18:50:20 Monday's hackfest will take place at BeCentral as well 18:50:53 w00t, do you need anything from this group for these events? 18:51:07 \/win3 18:51:08 just RSVP if you haven't 18:51:09 derp 18:51:37 #info please RSVP to the FOSDEM related events as soon as possible: https://www.meetup.com/jenkinsmeetup/ 18:51:53 Any plans regarding demos at FOSDEM table? 18:52:40 good question. that's on my todo list but right now no specific plan. 18:52:52 do you have a demo you'd like to show? 18:53:10 perhaps you all can coordinate something outside of the meeting for that 18:53:16 alyssat_: what table materials will we have? 18:53:39 we will have post card on Pipeline and JAMs. 18:53:41 #action oleg-nenashev to add Demos section to the Wiki page 18:53:47 and/or are there things contributors should bring, besides their smiling faces and laptops 18:53:59 and post card for Jenkins World 18:54:29 wear your Jenkins t-shirt 18:54:54 there'll be lots of Jenkins stickers 18:54:55 #info Jenkins contributors at FOSDEM, please bring and wear your squad t-shirts :P 18:55:03 we're selling t-shirts and caps 18:55:18 Only 50 T-shorts? 18:55:33 They will last for 2 hrs at max, I'd guess 18:55:40 i can only take that much w me 18:55:52 that's fine, thanks alyssat_ :) 18:55:53 and we don't have space at the exhibit space 18:55:59 * rtyler needs to get a new cap 18:56:05 a friend at Microsoft stole mine 18:56:10 I can bring T-shorts from my stock if it helps (and if you approve that) 18:56:26 sure. 18:56:34 alyssat_: anything else to update? 18:56:43 not on FOSDEM 18:56:43 I can bring T-shirts as well, if that helps (in luggage) 18:56:54 but can i plug about Jenkins World CFP? 18:57:03 alyssat_: this is not the time/place for that 18:57:04 #action oleg-nenashev and markewaite to bring as much T-shorts as he can 18:57:06 the blog is however 18:57:07 *they 18:57:16 please bring t-shirts instead of t-shorts 18:57:24 ... 18:57:24 rtyler: ok 18:57:31 * oleg-nenashev facepalms 18:57:43 thanks alyssat_ 18:57:47 #topic Next meeting 18:57:48 markewaite: thank you for the offer 18:58:08 #info the next meeting will be at 18:00 UTC ON January 31st 18:58:20 #endmeeting