18:07:53 #startmeeting 18:07:53 Let the Jenkins meeting commence! 18:07:57 * oleg-nenashev has to drop-off within 5 minutes :( 18:08:03 #info https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Governance+Meeting+Agenda 18:08:22 #topic LTS RC status check 18:08:35 Yippie, build fixed! 18:08:36 Project jenkins_main_trunk build #4132: FIXED in 59 min: http://ci.jenkins-ci.org/job/jenkins_main_trunk/4132/ 18:08:36 devld: [FIXED JENKINS-28227] Switch to Enblish locale in RunTest#getDurationString to test messages. 18:08:39 JENKINS-28227:RunTest#getDurationString fails on non-english environments. (Resolved) https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-28227 18:08:39 (I wonder if that works) 18:08:47 ogondza: LTS RC? :) 18:08:57 jglick: I understand JENKINS-26781 in not blocked anymore 18:09:00 JENKINS-26781:regression resolving Descriptor using "$class" vs "kind" (Resolved) https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-26781 18:09:35 I have seen that an hour ago and backporting seems not-trivial. 18:10:01 as kohsuke is likely not going to fire the release right away I can give it a try tomorrow 18:10:23 ogondza: would you like help getting a list of commits to backport? Or an aggregate patch? 18:10:54 ogondza: or a PR against the stable-1.609 branch? 18:11:05 it takes about 8 hours to run the test pipeline ... 18:11:46 jglick: that would help, there ware some conflicts relying on commits not linked to any issue 18:12:09 ogondza: I will try to prepare it as a PR, I think that is the easiest thing to review 18:12:35 jglick: thanks 18:12:36 Can work on that today. I also *just* managed to reproduce JENKINS-26582 and if it is a core bug I would propose it as lts-candidate too. 18:12:38 JENKINS-26582:ISE from RunMap.put after reloading config (In Progress) https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-26582 18:12:52 (Certainly looks like a bug in matrix-project but I have not yet analyzed it.) 18:13:21 Also plan to look into JENKINS-26575 and JENKINS-26743 but these could wait. 18:13:23 JENKINS-26575:Running the reverse migrator after upgrading to 1.597 throws NoClassDefFoundError: javax/servlet/http/HttpServletRequest (Open) https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-26575 18:13:25 JENKINS-26743:Build record migration prints warnings for permalinks (Open) https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-26743 18:13:44 out of interest, when's the RC due? they don't seem to be on the calendar any more 18:13:59 orrc: ~today 18:14:07 ah ha 18:14:16 or tomorrow with that one backport 18:14:34 jglick: I presume the rest does not go in .1 18:15:01 ogondza: well JENKINS-26582 is serious, so I do not know 18:15:03 JENKINS-26582:ISE from RunMap.put after reloading config (In Progress) https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-26582 18:15:17 Depends on what the issue turns out to be (core or plugin), and if core then how tricky the fix is. 18:16:10 If it is a simple core fix I might propose bending the rules given the circumstances. 18:16:32 sorry I'm late 18:16:50 jglick: I do not object 18:17:06 OK, TBD. 18:17:15 we are fine to move on 18:17:25 great. let's try... 18:17:28 #topic #jenkins-meeting 18:17:50 remove the second # ? 18:18:22 no idea. ogondza managed to start the meeting, but aside from that robobutler has remained silent 18:18:31 #topic #jenkins-meeting 18:18:41 you need to be chair to change topic 18:18:51 it seems I have to run the whole thing 18:18:58 that's what I thought, but didn't realise ogondza was a chair :) 18:19:08 well, the proposal is fairly straightforward: Let's establish a channel for meetings only 18:19:14 orrc: me neither 18:19:19 no more "sorry meeting right now" etc. 18:19:21 +1 on new channel 18:19:35 meetings get robologs anyway, so no need for echelog if it would be difficult 18:19:42 ogondza: you can set chairs with #chair 18:20:00 I do not expect anyone to disagree 18:20:04 hmm, I'm not sure, as it feels like it would reduce the number of people participating 18:20:19 though agreed that "we're in a meeting" or "build started" is annoying 18:20:34 IIRC credit for this idea goes to KostyaSha who mentioned this to me a while back 18:21:12 and given the frequent interruptions I thought this is a good idea 18:21:20 anyone opposed? 18:21:42 orrc We could try to announce on #jenkins when a meeting starts 18:22:21 indeed. ok, so I guess we need INFRA tickets 18:22:26 can someone file an INFRA issue to set that up? connect necessary bots or whatever else needs to be done 18:22:28 assuming there are +1s 18:23:18 ogondza I can file INFRA but don't have the super bot powers to implement unfortunately 18:23:33 I hope this is just a config change in the robobutler to go to a different channel 18:23:42 plus some bot from Freenode to be op 18:23:50 thanks 18:23:57 #action danielbeck file INFRA issue for #jenkins-meeting 18:24:01 yeah, we need to register with chanserv most likely. rtyler should be the expert there 18:24:06 can I have two different jenkins jobs update a single git PR with status? ( like so http://f.devicefreak.com/jenkins.png ) 18:24:13 hehe 18:24:13 shall we move on? 18:24:23 ericmeds Sorry meeting right now, please ask later 18:24:29 ogondza: do it 18:24:41 ok 18:24:47 #topic Should we only include plugins in the Update Centre if they have a wiki page? 18:25:03 #info https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/jenkinsci-dev/oEHEjKo08yA/S_uQ_C_7NMQJ 18:25:14 +1 about this. 18:25:28 Yes. The question is for me only whether to grandfather in releases created before the decision. 18:25:29 * ericmeds btw just a note - you guys could lock the channel down to just Ops and those who are voiced 18:25:46 ericmeds Meetings are public, no precondition. 18:25:50 so some of the info is there on the meeting page wiki, more details are in that jenkinsci-dev thread, and it seems like a popular idea 18:25:51 oh ok 18:26:28 danielbeck: I think you need to grandfather in releases prior to the decision as they may be honest mistakes. 18:26:53 jglick: that's what this is about: https://github.com/jenkinsci/backend-update-center2/pull/14 18:27:25 jglick For a grace period at least I think 18:27:32 jglick: Not sure this is possible in the long term. 18:27:34 Then review in 3-6 months 18:27:37 danielbeck: exactly. 18:27:47 agreed 18:28:15 because if this can stay as-is indefinitely, it makes absolutely no sense to even discuss this IMO 18:28:38 users will still "suffer" from badly defined plugins visible in the list inside Jenkins, and so on. 18:29:30 so, I have the update centre code on my laptop, and a list of plugins which are questionable which need a bit more investigation 18:30:01 but otherwise, I think we're set. main issues are making sure ruby-runtime has a wiki page, and that popular plugins get a temporary wiki override 18:30:21 Pinging KostyaSha as he was opposed on the list? 18:31:25 FWIW if there's something that legitimately prevents plugins from implementing this, we could add these to a list of exceptions. It's just the default should be to require a link. 18:31:32 if he's here, that would be good. but it just seemed to be a misunderstanding about multi-module poms or something 18:31:49 danielbeck: yeah, the wiki-override would work fine for that 18:31:54 (and Jenkins should rewrite hudson-ci.org to jenkins-ci.org in the /pluginManager :-) ) 18:32:04 IMO, he opposed to things that were actually not required from plugins. We're talking (almost) only here about having 1) a wiki page and 2) a correct inside the pom 18:32:20 ah right, yeah. that's a separate discussion :) 18:32:23 batmat The rest is a separate topic later 18:33:02 do we have any disagreement here? 18:33:10 danielbeck: my UC changes rewrite all URLs to the canonical https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS form :) 18:33:17 orrc Great! 18:33:29 plus I fixed a bug where certain other URLs (e.g. ones with IDs in) do not work 18:33:36 like the "Anything Goes" Formatter 18:33:38 anyway, +1 18:34:32 alright, what are the actions here? 18:34:51 before we move on ... 18:34:58 I propose we change UC to exclude plugins released from June 1st that have no to a valid Jenkins (/Hudson) Wiki, and to review in the fall whether we can enforce this for all plugins. Technical reasons will get manual exceptions in the UC code. 18:35:16 +1 from me 18:35:32 I am afraid users will be confused 18:35:39 Actions are to modify the UC accordingly, send announcements to the dev list, and maybe email authors of plugins that are affected directly 18:35:47 ogondza: by what? 18:36:00 +1 18:36:07 there is a lot of questions, 'why is my plugin not listen in UC'? 18:36:08 + add to the wiki documentation ("Help, my plugin doesn't show up") 18:36:26 if it can be skipped because of missing/broken url it will only get worse 18:36:49 if devs can't follow simple instructions, I'm not sure what we can do 18:37:10 documenting this stuff on the plugin-related wiki pages will be part of it 18:37:10 Yes, and that has always been required: https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Hosting+Plugins#HostingPlugins-AddingaWikipage just not enforced. 18:37:25 this is not new. 18:37:25 batmat: fair enough 18:37:50 would a report generated from the UC that clearly spelled out reasons for exclusion help? They'd have to find that first as well, and we have documentation on UC troubleshooting already... 18:38:20 I added a bit more output to the UC, e.g. "Excluding foo-bar as URL http://example.com is not a valid wiki URL" 18:38:29 so we could point to the j-o-j job 18:38:40 orrc Awesome! 18:38:48 (like the "Help, my plugin is missing" steps point to just now) 18:38:49 +1 from me 18:38:55 Maybe there could even be something inside the Jenkins UI itself in the pluginManager, some notice about this ? 18:39:12 Like the temporary things for the 1.600 and the likeS. 18:39:16 #action orrc to publish a pull request to be merged June 1st which excludes bad plugins from the UC 18:39:20 batmat That would be publishing. But maybe generated a 'rejected-plugins.lst' on updates.jenkins-ci.org? 18:39:35 #action orrc to publish a pull request to be merged June 1st which excludes bad plugins from the UC 18:40:27 #action orrc to try and make plugin-related wiki pages even more clear about requiring a wiki URL 18:40:35 I think non-chairs can write actions(?) 18:40:38 What about announcement on dev list? Or even email to the affected plugin devs? 18:40:49 yeah, that's another action 18:41:07 danielbeck: not listing the excluded plugins, just a notice that "starting june first, some plugins might have been excluded, ..." 18:41:07 I can do that 18:41:24 danielbeck: I guess committing the urls where missing is fine 18:41:26 i.e. get my UC pull request up and running, then run the code and generate a list of bad plugins 18:42:08 ogondza: that seems reasonable; we can mention that in the dev-list mail 18:42:36 #action add/fix wiki links where there is no doubt 18:42:36 commits are evil, PRs would be better 18:43:16 danielbeck: why? I do not feel strongly, though it is more work 18:43:23 we can write on the dev list that maintainers should do it ASAP, and give notice that we may do it ourselves after June 1st? 18:43:38 do we also want to release? A possibly broken plugin state? 18:43:47 If not, there's no point to committing directly. 18:44:06 plus, some plugin authors may object to the invasion of their sandbox 18:44:21 ok, that's fair 18:44:43 maybe I'll take a look at automating the creation of pull requests 18:45:02 so I think we're generally in agreement. I need to clean some stuff up and get a list of bad plugins 18:45:14 we can see where we are at the next meeting, just before June 1st? 18:45:37 sounds great. Make sure we have everything set up before pulling the trigger 18:45:39 orrc: that would be great, we will send the notice before that anyway 18:46:09 ok, I guess we should skip to danielbeck's topic at the end of the agenda, as rtyler isn't around 18:46:20 ok, moving on 18:46:30 What about the CDN? Also an rtyler topic? 18:46:44 yeah, I would like to talk about that 18:46:56 but it's kind of in his hands; he's the one who was talking to the CDN 18:46:57 rtyler didn't update the issue where he wrote he contacted Fastly 18:47:03 #action Using a CDN with HTTPS / removing need for mirrorbrain? 18:47:13 btw, mirrorbrain broke down again this morning 18:47:14 do you mean #topic? 18:47:17 hehe 18:47:25 #topic Using a CDN with HTTPS / removing need for mirrorbrain? 18:47:25 oh, my bad 18:47:46 right on time! 18:47:52 I was summonned 18:47:58 let me dig that email up 18:48:00 yeah, so rtyler said that Fastly replied and said they would be willing to front all the traffic for Jenkins updates (like they do for Python), AFAIK 18:48:05 ah, even better :) 18:48:08 I basically owe them some details about our mirroring requirements 18:48:27 I also need to create some accounts and whatnot through their self-service portal 18:48:53 will that become another INFRA #spof? :) 18:49:12 which, the fastly account? 18:49:14 #chair rtyler orrc danielbeck 18:49:14 Current chairs: danielbeck ogondza orrc rtyler 18:49:35 yeah. which I guess relates to the previous infra topic we skipped 18:49:59 there's still a number of accounts died directly to me, but we have the facilities now to put shared passwords into an encrypted spot 18:50:14 ah, nice 18:50:22 in some cases though accounts are tied directly to me as a person 18:50:26 like with a credit card 18:50:32 SPI don't give us credit cards :P 18:50:51 shame 18:51:05 anyways, I'm finally free this weekend, I'll make it a priority to get the initial prototype of fastly up and running 18:51:33 sounds great 18:51:43 #action rtyler to look at an initial fastly prototype 18:52:34 should we talk about more general infra when more infra admins are around? 18:53:42 what in particular do you have in mind? 18:54:13 rtyler: there was an agenda item to discuss the infra training/expansion that was brought up a while back 18:54:27 yeah, so I'll briefly update that 18:54:55 aheritier asked for and was granted access, there's not a particular limit to contributing to the puppet infra though 18:55:07 the *management* and operation of the infra ia different trust story unfortunately 18:55:18 so I do not have guidelines or any documentation to report on that 18:56:04 ok. what would be the requirement for someone who feels they're capable enough and in a well-placed timezone to get access? 18:56:07 aheritier did make a point about incorporating someobyd in the Asia/Pacific region to give us better operational support coverage, but as it stands now I don't have anybody that's come forward on that 18:56:45 ok. we have two in EU, right? danielbeck, you have access? 18:57:01 well, demonstration of knowledge whether through activity in INFRA JIRA or by submitting PRs/reviews on jenkins-infra 18:57:13 orrc I have access to... a lot 18:57:19 heh 18:57:38 to me earning trust is difficult to quantify 18:57:42 Some docs would be nice though, I'm just an empty head right now :-) 18:57:51 sure 18:58:30 I think an action here would be.. 18:58:47 #action rtyler to audit the Infra subsection of the wiki for sensitive material so it can be opened up more broadly 18:59:05 it's tough as it's not really possible to give granular server access; I'd like to be able to restart apache/confluence/jira in the early European hours 18:59:12 that's feasible 18:59:21 just not as easy as what aheritier got 18:59:51 orrc: file a JIRA for "atlassian admins" to be created as a group and then we can add more people with perms only do admin those on the machines themselves 19:00:21 then I nominate you as the first sucker^Wmember 19:00:35 sounds like effort; I'll take sudo access as well ;) 19:00:37 sure 19:00:56 we can get better coverage faster with the more granular, so let's do that 19:01:02 and by "let's" I mean "I'll" 19:01:08 unless you want to write some puppet! 19:01:30 I did try to get some jenkins-infra up and running a few weeks back, but failed without access to the secrets, I believe 19:02:00 ah, let's discuss that after this meeting 19:02:08 like getting a web server role up and running. anyway, I can check again and report back 19:02:16 #action orrc and rtyler to create "atlassian admins" to help get coverage on jira/wiki 19:02:53 wunderbar. danielbeck: you want to move to your topic? 19:03:07 sure, let's have some real discussion here :-) 19:03:11 heh 19:03:18 * rtyler puts on his flame retardant suit 19:03:27 #topic Further requirements for plugins published in the community update center 19:04:35 We're publishing anything in the repo right now 19:05:02 And anyone who has an account can upload a version of every plugin 19:05:20 (account? commit access to one plugin? Not sure right now, but shouldn't matter) 19:05:55 So, what prevents anyone from releasing, say, mailer 1.20, a bundled plugin? 19:06:32 We do have a responsibility to our users who don't expect to get malware when installing a popular plugin, or updating a bundled one 19:06:38 but right now, this is what they could get 19:06:51 I generally agree 19:07:04 I think some of the proposals you through into the meeting agenda would be good to go through 19:07:07 * rtyler looks at the time 19:07:24 just pasting from the Agenda: 19:07:33 Starting build #4133 for job jenkins_main_trunk (previous build: FIXED) 19:07:34 Require a valid SCM URL for new plugin releases inside @jenkinsci/svn.jenkins-ci.org (that must exist) – needs to handle plugins not bundled with Gradle 19:07:40 Require that the uploader of the binary is the same user who created the tag (we have the data in LDAP, see jenkins-ci.org/account) 19:07:44 Remove the commit permissions from 'everyone', it's reckless 19:08:16 Besides that last one, these should be fairly low impact, at least for plugins that are good "citizens" 19:08:35 going through them one by one: 19:09:35 Valid SCM URL... should be obvious. Like the wiki link, show us the source code. No file:/// URLs! Must be in svn.jenkins-ci.org / jenkinsci Github org. Allow exceptions for existing releases. 19:09:52 +1 19:10:12 Also, requires plugins we distribute to be OSS. I think this is reasonable. 19:11:09 Matching uploader and tagging committer: Requires a tag in the Jenkins community repo (besides just having a potentially unused/dead fork), also reasonable to allow others to review and inspect what would be installed. 19:11:38 Users can specify their Github user ID in the jenkins-ci.org/account app, so we have the data, we just need to make use of it. 19:12:03 Any CB support around? On Enterprise and want to have a quick chat about an urgent ticket I think is falling through the cracks. 19:12:37 StuartWhelan: wrong time and place, I'm afraid. we're in a meeting (and I think there are no CB support people here) 19:12:53 And the third one... I'm really troubled by the 'access by default' rule we have. We need to change this, otherwise the other two changes are useless. 19:13:04 orrc: Rgr, ta 19:13:28 It doesn't mean we would start removing access from users who have a good reason. It's easy enough to give per-repo access 19:13:38 danielbeck: yeah, the recent junk plugins really made that problem clear 19:13:40 I think thie valid SCM thing is a great idea, I think we should definitely require OSS plugins for distrubition 19:14:19 IMO there's nothing wrong with requiring the vast majority of users to have per-repo group memberships. 19:14:32 Would have saved us from the repo force push issue a year or two ago as well, FWIW 19:14:56 agreed 19:15:16 of course the transition period would be busy, plus users wondering wtf is going on, but we can smooth some of that by adding users to the repos they recently contributed to by default 19:15:21 yeah, I'd quite like to clean up the GitHub organisation 19:15:50 there's also been a couple of times in the past two weeks where people have hit "Create repo" directly from GitHub, which makes a mess 19:16:54 Maybe I'm being too pessimistic about the problem. I don't know. But I fear that the reputation of the entire Jenkins project is at risk right now if someone exploited our _extremely_ permissive policies. 19:17:42 * rtyler nods 19:17:43 when using on demand slaves (docker), how can i make the master node realize i'm mounting $JENKINS_HOME/workspace on the slaves? 19:17:54 deebo Meeting right now, please wait a bit 19:17:55 deebo: give us a bit to wrap up this project meeting 19:17:57 heh 19:18:05 ok 19:18:06 danielbeck: so what are some things we can do right now? 19:18:27 requiring a valid SCM URL, can just be git:// validation, but should the UC also be requiring that we can access it too? 19:18:41 hi, I have problems with EC2_Plugin: failed to launch com.amazonaws.AmazonClientException: Security groups must all be VPC security groups to work in a VPC context at hudson.plugins.ec2.SlaveTemplate.getEc2SecurityGroups(SlaveTemplate.java:757) 19:18:48 jmartinstw Please wait a bit, meeting right now 19:19:16 rtyler I think we need the full package of valid SCM with tag for the version. 19:19:39 Otherwise it's pointless from both traceability and safety POV 19:19:43 * rtyler nods 19:19:43 + user matching 19:19:54 because anyone can upload an HPI with a bad POM 19:20:05 so let's wrap this meeting up, what are some action items that we can take away from this? 19:20:23 orrc WDYT? I think from those present you know UC best right now 19:20:40 How much effort is it to extend UC to do this? 19:21:05 the UC already examines the tag, so that shouldn't be too hard to validate 19:21:20 orrc Remember the LDAP access to match Github user and jenkins-ci user 19:21:29 there are two components here, adding requirements to the UC, and making them meaningful by cleaning up the Github org 19:21:57 yeah, that's the part I'm not sure about, and would make this harder to develop/test 19:22:15 rtyler How accessible is the account app info (LDAP I assume)? 19:22:19 could one of you take the org cleanup and the other UC work? or sohuld we try to find additional help? 19:22:29 as accessible as LDAP can be more or less 19:23:17 I started working part time, so I've been making Mondays Jenkins monkey work time to some extent. maybe I can take a look at both 19:23:27 Could we get some opinions first on how much agreement there is? 19:23:42 ogondza said +1, everobyd else is silent :P 19:23:50 +sure? =) 19:23:55 my main question is how tightly linked the jenkins-ci.org and LDAP accounts are 19:24:07 tightly linked to what? 19:24:07 everyone is too busy writing mailer 1.20 :-( 19:24:16 I asked kohsuke to ban the junk plugin guy from Maven, but it wasn't possible to just cut off Maven access 19:24:25 so he just reset his password or something 19:24:37 we need (I think?) a jenkins-admin: give maven access to foo 19:25:02 hm, we'll have to look at what group JFrog is binding to for LDAP authentication 19:25:14 and we can just start making more use of the rich wonderful world of pain LDAP supports :) 19:25:30 INFRA-287 fwiw 19:25:32 INFRA-287:Remove maven access for user anitha (Resolved) https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/INFRA-287 19:26:11 orrc If we manage permissions to the plugin repos, and only distribute on the UC what was created by authorized committers, that should be fine IMO 19:27:08 Artifactory permissions based on paths (e.g. group) are a huge PITA so I don't think we want that 19:27:45 Maybe add a flag/group membership required for committing so we can remove users generally, but not to do per-plugin upload permissions 19:27:53 * rtyler looks at the clock 19:27:55 sure 19:28:13 ok, I'll maybe take a look as well at grabbing the committer ID from Maven for a given release 19:28:30 orrc Could you take a look at necessary UC changes? I'm busy next week but will be able to assist the week after 19:28:32 I've seen it listed in Artifactory, so the info is there 19:28:32 great 19:28:36 yup 19:28:53 #action orrc to look at the UC changes mentioned to validate and user info 19:29:04 any Github admins around for taking inventory of needed changes there? 19:29:20 heh, I was about to ask for admin access. so I can quit bugging abayer ;) 19:29:22 * rtyler is not currently a github admin 19:29:35 drulli? 19:29:55 oh yeah 19:30:15 uh, this account has admin access? https://github.com/hudsonadmin 19:30:29 mysterious, with a bad URL? 19:30:47 that's probably some bot thing that kohsuke set up 19:31:20 time for me to get back to work 19:31:31 thanks for the input 19:31:34 right, so someone needs Github org admin access or assistance by one of the admins. Then we need to get some data what needs to be done. I could try that 19:32:23 ndeloof is an admin as well? he's on my bad plugin list of shame! :) 19:32:34 danielbeck: you can #action yourself :) 19:32:34 orrc didn't he fix it? 19:32:50 #action orrc to investigate UC changes so it requires proper SCM, tag, and uploader 19:33:00 I think ndeloof answered he tried to create the wiki page, but there was an issue at the time 19:33:08 danielbeck: he has a bunch of plugins on the bad wiki list 19:33:14 #action danielbeck to get data on necessary Github permission changes 19:33:33 ok, all done 19:33:44 #topic next meeting 19:33:56 Looks like the 27th May at the usual time 19:33:58 May 27, same time, same place 19:34:08 depending on your INFRA task 19:34:10 (unless we manage #jenkins-meeting) :-) 19:34:20 #endmeeting